Multiple Version Songs (15): In the ‘Realm of Remakes’ – Hindi to Tamil

December 10, 2013

Guest article by N Venkataraman

(In my introduction to Venkataramanji’s last article, I had traced how he had originally planned to write three articles on Tamil-Hindi version songs, which he later decided to expand to five. This is his fourth, which looks at similar songs from Tamil films remade from Hindi films. Its converse, i.e. remakes from Tamil to Hindi, would be his last, but surely not the last of the mega series on Multiple Version Songs. For new visitors to Songs of Yore, this mega project is the brainchild of an SoY regular, Mr Ashok M Vaishnav. Without repeating what I have said earlier, the best way to understand how it came about is to browse through old articles in the series, which are all placed here.  – AK)

Woh Kaun Thi_Yaar NeeWinter has heralded its arrival and I am out of my ‘monsoon hibernation’. Hibernation is only a state of mind and it takes very little time and, of course, effort to wake up. Incessant monsoon rains can make one sleepy and at time depressed. Autumn followed by winter brings in clear sky and hope. With gentle breeze blowing and clear blue sky, it is time to set the sail once again.

After my first two posts, though not originally planned, I decided to anchor and harbour at the haven, the ‘Dancers of Deccan’. After coming out of the slumber now I will try to navigate and helm my way through the ‘Realm of Remakes’.

Since the basic theme was similar in all my posts till date, where one of the versions was in an unfamiliar language, presented under classifications, I suspected it might sound monotonous. Therefore, I took a conscious break which also coincided with some personal matters which needed my greater time commitment. All this while I kept myself connected with the Songs of Yore, which continued its march with some extremely enlightening and popular articles, such as a string of posts on the best songs of 1953 and a series of posts on SD Burman. Also, it was gratifying to find some visitors to my earlier articles posting highly flattering comments. Rejuvenated, I have decided to continue with my original plan stated in my first post. In any case it may serve as a reference for future. Life is sailing. Sailing is life. Without further frills let me enter into my avowed area.

Remake of Tamil films in Hindi started in the forties. The credit for this trend to a great extent can be ascribed to the great visionary S S Vasan. Vasan could visualize a wider and potential market for the South Indian movies. Many more producers started treading his path. Following the success of this trend, we could notice that from early 50s Hindi films too were dubbed and remade in Tamil. But dubbed films did not go well with the Tamil viewers whereas remade films were relatively successful. Deedaar, Nastik, Aasha, Ustaadon ka Ustad, Ali Baba aur Chalis Chor, Woh Kaun Thi, Qaidi 911, Aaradhana, Victoria No.203, Dushman, Yadon Ki Baarat, Apna Desh, Don, Qurbani, Trishool, Golmaal, Deewar, Mard, Khuddar, Laawaris, Arth, Dostana, Disco Dancer, Sanam Teri kasam, Namak halal, Arjun, Damini and Drohkaal are some of the films that, I can recollect, were remade in Tamil. But most of the films mentioned pertain to the period after 1970. I will try to restrict myself to the films that were made before 1970.

It seems that Tamil music directors of the late 40s, 50s and 60s were not only inspired by Hindi melodies, they also had a penchant for twin-version Hindi songs. Earlier we could notice that the twin version song from the film Khidki (1948) was adapted by music director Sudarshanam for the film Vazhkai (1949). The tune of the song Kismat hamare saath sung by Md.Rafi, R Chitalkar and chorus was used for a male solo song and the tune of the female version of the same song sung by Lata Mangeshkar, Shamshad Begum and Mohantara Talpade was used for a female solo song, in the film Vazhkai. I have included three such twin version songs from remakes, one each from Deedar (1951), Asha (1959) and Qaidi No. 911 (1959).

Let me start with 1951 film Deedar. The film was directed by Nitin Bose. Ashok Kumar, Dilip Kumar, Nargis and Nimmi were in lead roles. It was a landmark movie for Naushad, who composed a dozen beautiful songs for this film. The film was remade in Tamil as Neengatha Ninaivu (‘Unforgettable Memory’) in 1963. S S Rajendran, Kalyan Kumar and C R Vijayalakshmi were in the lead roles. K V Mahadevan composed the music for this film. K V Mahadevan retained both the twin version songs Bachpan ke din bula na dena in the Tamil film. In the original Hindi version, the male solo was sung by Md.Rafi and the female duet was sung by Lata Mangeshkar and Shamshad Begum. I do not think K V Mahadevan was under any compulsion to retain the tune. Naushad was very popular among the music directors as well as with the common listeners of the south. M S Vishwanthan, another much respected music director of the South was a great admirer of Naushad. He had adapted the tune of another popular number from this film Huye humm jinke liye barbaad sung by Md.Rafi in one of his movies (not a remake). It seems Jikki had rendered a Tamil song set to a similar tune for the film Puyal in 1952.

Let me start with the female duet from the Tamil remake Neengatha Ninaivu followed by the Hindi original duet from Deedar.

1T. Oh chinnanchiru malarai maranthu vidathe from Neengatha Nenaivu (1963) by L R Eswari and P Susheela, lyrics Kavignar Kannadasan, music K V Mahadevan

 

1H. Bachpan ke din bula na dena from Deedar (1951) by Lata Mangeshkar and Shamshad Begum, lyrics Shakeel Badayuni, music Naushad

 

Remakes can be of two types. It can be a frame by frame copy of the original. In the second category, the original movie might have been used as the source material, but not exactly a frame by frame copy. In the first type, we generally find the original melodies retained in the remade versions. Alibabavum 40 Thirudargalum, Yaar Nee etc. were frame by frame remakes of the original Hindi films.

Alibabavum 40 Thirudargalum (1956) was a land mark Tamil film. This was the first film in Tamil to be produced in colour (Geva). This was a remake of the 1954 Hindi Film Ali Baba Aur 40 Chor. This was also remade in Telugu as Alibaba 40 Dongalu. The tunes of all the songs from the Hindi version were retained in the Tamil Version. In the Tamil movie S Dakshinamurthy and party were credited with the orchestration. The music score for the Hindi version was by S N Tripathi and Chitragupt. M G Ramachandran and Bhanumati were the lead cast in the Tamil version; in the Hindi version Mahipal and Shakila were in the lead roles. Let us listen to the Tamil version of Dekho ji chand nikla in a slightly faster meter.

2T. Azhagaana ponnu Naan from Alibabavum 40 Thirudargalum (1956) by P Bhanumati, lyrics A Maruthakasi, music S Dakshinamurthy

 

Let us listen to Asha Bhosle rendering this beautiful composition.

2H. Dekho ji chand nikla pichhe khajoor ke from Alibaba Aur 40 Chor (1954) by Asha Bhosle, lyrics Raja Mehdi Ali Khan, music S N Tripathi and Chitragupt.

 

Incidentally Waheeda Rehaman made an appearance as a dancer in the Tamil version of this film. But I am not presenting this song here. Let us listen to another song whose tune may sound familiar!

3T. Chinna chiru chitte en cheena karkkande from Alibabvum 40 Thirudargalum (1956) by S C Krishnan and Jikki, lyrics A Maruthkasi, music S Dakshinamurthy

 

Here is the lilting original number from the Hindi version. How does this compare with O P Nayyar’s number from Phagun (1958)? Certainly this original number is also good.

3H. Chalo chalo hum babul ki tale from Alibaba Aur 40 Chor (1954) by Shamshad Begum and Md Rafi, lyrics Raja Mehdi Ali Khan, music S N Tripathi and Chitragupt.

 

Nastik (1955), starring Ajit and Nalini Jaywant, was directed and written by I S Johar, who also wrote its screenplay. He also acted in the film. There were nine songs in the movie composed by C Ramchandra. He was assisted by Dutta Davjekar. The duet by Lata Mangeshkar and Hemant Kumar Gagan jhan jhanaa raha and the only male solo song Kitna badal gaya insaan were great hits. Kavi Pradeep who penned the lyrics for the movie also sang this beautiful song, which I will be presenting next. It was picturized on a hassled Ajit travelling with his young sister and kid brother in an overcrowded train. The song starts soon after the display of the titles of the film.

The film was remade in Tamil in 1958 and the music for the Tamil version was also composed by C Ramchandra. Except for an audio version of the song mentioned, no information about this Tamil film or any other song from the Tamil version is available. Ku Ma Balasubramanian had done a tidy job in translating and maintaining the original essence of the Hindi song. The rendition by Thirucchi Loganathan was also equally good. Let us listen to the audio version of the Tamil song first and then the original Hindi version. Please wait patiently for the play button to appear and then click on the play button to listen to the song.

4T. Maanila mel sila manidargal from Nasthikan (1958) by Thirucchi Loganathan, Lyrics Ku Ma Balasubramanian, music C Ramchandra

http://www.4shared.com/mp3/XWcplDMl/Manilamel_Sila_Manidaral.html

4H. Dekh tere sansar ki haalat from Nastik (1955) by Kavi Pradeep, lyrics Kavi Pradeep, music C Ramchandra

 

The song was so popular that even before the film Nastik was remade in Tamil, this tune was used in two other films. It is interesting to note that in 1955, Ku Ma Balasubramanian penned the lyrics for another romantic song based on this tune and G Ramanthan was the first composer to be inspired by this tune! In 1956 R Sudarshanam religiously adapted the tune for a Tamil devotional song for the film Naga Devathai. Here is the audio version of this song. Please click on the play button to listen to the song.

Paaviyin theevinai from Nagadevthai (1956) by P B Srinivas, lyrics (?), music R Sudarshanam

http://www.raaga.com/play/?id=204905

The Hindi film Asha (1957) and its Tamil version Athisaya Penn (1959) were produced and directed by M V Raman. Kishore Kumar and Vyjyanthimala played the leading roles in the Hindi version, whereas A Nageswar Rao and Vyjyanthimala were in the lead roles in the Tamil version. The popular twin version song Eena meena deeka was sung by Kishore Kumar and Asha Bhosle and the music was composed by C Ramchandra. S M Subbaiah Naidu, who was the music director for the Tamil version, retained the popular tune. Arunkumar Deshmukhji had mentioned this song and posted the female version of the Tamil song in my second article. Ashok Vaishnavji had posted the Hindi version (audio only) of both the versions of this song and the female version of the Tamil song in my first episode. Since the Tamil video version is not available, I am presenting the Tamil audio and Hindi video mix of the male version of the Tamil song sung by T M Sounderarajan.

5T. Eena meena deeka from Atishaya Penn (The Wonder Girl) (1959) by T M Sounderarajan, lyrics V Seetharam, music S M Subbaiah Naidu

 

Although the lyric for the original song was credited to Rajendra Krishna, there is an interesting story behind the lyrics of this song. Some kids playing outside C Ramchandra’s music room were shouting ‘eena, meena myna, moe’, which inspired Ramchandra and his assistant John Gomes to create the first line of the song Eena meena deeka, de dai damanika. Gomes, who was a Goan added the words ‘Maka naka’ which means ‘I don’t want’ in Konkani. Rajendra Krishna finally joined the fun and completed the amusing song. Let us too join the fun and enjoy the indomitable performance of Kishore Kumar.

5H. Eena meena deeka from Asha (1957) by Kishore Kumar, lyrics Rajinder Krishan, music C Ramchandra

 

The next song is from the Tamil film Kaithi Kannayiram (1960), which was a remake of the Hindi film Qaidi No. 911 (1959). Here is an interesting link to a very good review of this film and also a detailed build up to the climax of the story involving this twin version song from this movie sung by P Susheela/ Lata Mangeshkar.

http://www.hindu.com/cp/2011/05/15/stories/2011051550341600.htm

Now let us listen to one of the versions of this melodious song, Tamil followed by Hindi.

6T. Konji konji pesi madhimayakkum from Kaithi Kannayiram (1960) by P Susheela , lyrics K Marudhakasi, music K V Mahadevan

 

6H. Mithi mithi baton se bachna zara from Qaidi No. 911 (1959) by Lata Mangeshkar, lyric Hasrat Jaipuri, music Dattaram Wadkar

 

I had presented in my first episode, the duet Manam ennum medai mele by P Susheela and T M Sounderarajan from Vallavanukku Vallavan (1965) which was adopted by the music director Veda, from the song Sau saal pehle mujhe tumse pyaar tha, sung by Md.Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar from Jab Pyar Kisi Se Hota Hai (1961). The Tamil film Vallavanukku Vallavan (1965) was actually a remake of the Hindi film Ustadon ka Ustad (1963). True to his reputation for drawing immense inspiration from the popular numbers of Hindi films, music director Veda retained the melody of the songs Sau baar janam lenge and Milte hai nazar tum se. Let us listen to the Tamil version of the first song, well rendered by T M Sounderarajan, penned by Kavignar Kannadasan.

7T. Or Ayiram parvayile from Vallavanukku Vallavan (Master of Masters) (1965) by T M Sounderarajan, lyrics Kavignar Kannadasan, music Veda

 

Here is the original Hindi version.

7H. Sau baar janam lenge from Ustadon ka Ustad (1963) by Md.Rafi, lyrics Asad Bhopali, music Ravi

 

Qawwali was/is not known to be a genre of songs sung or popular in the south. But music director Veda also used this qawwali tune to a good effect in the same film.

8T. Paaradi kanne from the film Vallavanukku Vallavan (Master of Masters) (1965) by T M Sounderarajan, Seergazhi Govindarajan & P Susheela, lyrics Kavignar Kannadasan, music Veda

 

Let us listen to this Qawwali number from the Hindi version of the film

8H. Milte hi nazar tum se from Ustadon ka Ustad (1963) by Md.Rafi, Manna Dey and Asha Bhosle, lyrics Asad Bhopali, music Ravi

 

Woh Kaun Thi was a 1964 Hindi movie starring Sadhana, Manoj Kumar and Prem Chopra. The film became a hit at the box office. The suspense thriller was remade in Tamil as Yaar Nee by Sathyam (1966) with Jayshankar and Jayalalitha in the lead roles. The film was also remade in Telugu as Ame Evaru (1966). Madan Mohan composed some enchanting melodies.

Yaar Nee was also a frame by frame copy of the original Hindi film. Almost all the melodies from Wo kaun Thi were retained by, who else, Veda who scored the music for the Tamil version. Let us listen to this song from the Tamil remake.

9T. Naane varuven ingum angum from Yaar Nee (1966) by P Susheela, lyrics Kavignar Kannadasan, music Veda

 

Let us listen to the popular Lata Mangeshkar’s solo from this film. This was possibly one of the excellent songs rendered by Lata Mangeshkar. This song is also one of my favourite Lata Mangeshkar solos.  The combination of Madan Mohan’s music, Lata Mangeshkar’s outstanding singing and Raja Mehdi Ali Khan’s soulful words, add to the magic of this eternal song.

9H. Naina barse rim jhim from Who Kaun Thi (1964) by Lata Mangeshkar, lyrics Raja Mehdi Ali Khan, music Madan Mohan

 

Let us listen to one more song from the Tamil version picturised on Jayalaitha.

10T. Ponmeni Thazhuvamal from Yaar Nee (1966) by P Susheela, lyrics Kavignar Kannadasan, music Veda

 

Let us listen to the outstanding original melody. It is really difficult to decide which one was superior, Madan Mohan’s brilliant composition or the poignant words penned by Raja Mehdi Ali Khan or the immaculate rendering by Lata Mangeshkar.

10H. Lag ja gale from Who Kaun Thi (1964) by Lata Mangeshkar, lyrics Raja Mehdi Ali Khan, music Madan Mohan

 

With the links to the songs getting removed frequently, on the alleged reasons of copyright violation, I am not sure how many links to the songs presented here will be intact. I repeatedly faced this irritating problem in course of writing this post.

Which Hindi film was a remake of the Marathi film Pathlag? Woh Kaun Thi or Mera Saaya?

With this poser I come to the end of this episode.

Vanakkam NamaskarNamaskar

{ 82 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Ashok M Vaishnav December 10, 2013 at 1:26 pm

The association of Hindi and Tamil film industries has one of the most fruitful one.
Shri N Venkatraman’s poetic narrative deserves kudos for being able to capture the essence of this association so comprehensively within the possible limitation of space that one blogspot would offer.

2 N Venkataraman December 10, 2013 at 5:44 pm

Ashok Vaishnav ji,
It is a pleasure to receive appreciation from the originator of and prolific contributor to the Mega-series. In that sense, our association too is of the most fruitful nature.
Thank you once again for those encouraging words.

3 Anu Warrier December 10, 2013 at 7:38 pm

Mr Venkatraman,

Pathlag was the original version of Mera Saaya. 🙂

What a lovely article. I remember listening to Oh chinnanchirai malare maranthu vidaathe as a child, and excitedly informing my father that it sounded just like Bachpan ke din bhula na dena. I thought I had discovered something he didn’t know about! Was pretty much dampened when he told me he knew that already!

Ponmeni thazhuvamal was new to me. I must confess to liking Lag ja gale better. Perhaps because that is the song I grew up listening.

4 mumbaikar8 December 11, 2013 at 3:52 am

Venkataranji,
Thanks for the wonderful article.
I cannot tell difference between Telugu and Tamil or in that case any
South Indian language, ( am not proud of it ).
Going through all the songs was very enlightening experience.
I feel Lata is very sweet in meethi meethi baton se bachna zara but P Sushila sounds equally sweet .
Lag ja gale she is not so close.
Tamil qawwali is very interesting.
Your concern was well warranted, Tamil version of eena meena dica is disabled.
Venkataramnaji I have a question for you, are the lyrics of all these songs same word by word?
Thanks once again.

5 Arunkumar Deshmukh December 13, 2013 at 9:23 pm

Venkataraman ji,

Thanks for an excellent and informative post.
I enjoyed all the songs. Being from Hyderabad originally,perhaps, I have a soft corner and liking for all that is southern-its food and music especially. listening to these songs not only gave me a joy of nostalgia,but also hearing the southern singers is what has given me more pleasure. These days,these have become rare for me,so posts like yours are most welcome.
AK ji has continued his tradition of presenting something special on his Blog. Thanks.
Thanks,Venataraman ji,once again.
-Arunkumar Deshmukh

6 N Venkataraman December 16, 2013 at 2:28 pm

I am Sorry Anuji, Mubaikar8 and Arunjii. I could not respond to your comments earlier due to combination of factors, tour, health problems etc. I am ok now and back today. Will respond soon.

7 n.venkataraman December 16, 2013 at 7:37 pm

Anuji,
Before the internet days I was under the impression that ‘Who Kaun thi?’ was the remake of the Marathi film Pathlag. You are absolutely right. Mera Saya was the remake of Pathlag. I do not think that Mera Saya was remade in Tamil. Interestingly, Raj Khosla was the director, Madanmohan was the music director, lyric was penned by Raja Mehdi Ali Khan, for Who Kaun thi(1964) as well as Mera Saya(1966). Sadhana was the leading actress in both films. Mera saya too had some wonderful songs. I think, Who Kaun thi was adopted from a Hollywood movie of 1940s and a novel written in late 19th century, by the name ‘The Women in White’.
Arunji can throw more light on this.
I am glad that the post revived your childhood memories.
Thank you.

8 n.venkataraman December 16, 2013 at 7:43 pm

@Mumbaikar8

I am happy that you liked the post and the songs.
Anuji and Arunji are in some way or the other associated with South Indian languages. In spite of being unfamiliar with the South Indian languages, you took the pain of listening to the Tamil version songs.

The lyrics of the Tamil version songs are not same word by word but it carries the essence of the original version. The situation of the songs in remakes being the same as in the original version, it will not be difficult to understand the context and content of these songs. The same goes for the dubbed versions too. But in the “Inspired and adopted songs’ such difficulty will be pronounced.
Only the “Embedding’ of the Tamil version of the song Eeena meena dika has been disabled, you can still watch and listen to the link by clicking on the line ‘Watch on you tube’.
P Sushila’s rendering of the song, meethi meethi baton se bachna zara was equally good, but, comparison with Lata Mangeshkar will be unfair.
Thank you.

9 n.venkataraman December 16, 2013 at 7:46 pm

Arunji,
Namaskar. Thank you for your generous appreciation.
I took notice of your liking for anything South Indian, especially food. Next time when I visit Mumbai, I may drop in to enjoy some Andhra delicacies!
When it comes to film music, not only your liking, but your knowledge of South Indian films is very much evident from your post on Kannada version songs and your comments on this subject in other posts. I, for one, try to draw inspiration from you and emulate you. I am glad that listening to the songs gave you pleasure and joy.
As you have rightly pointed out, I should thank AKji for providing this platform and for introducing some wonderful series.

Thank you once again.

10 Kartik December 26, 2013 at 8:30 pm

Venkat sir I read your this writing and the other writing also. I liked them. But you tell only tamils copying from hindi and not hindi people copying from tamil. Only one side story. This is not fair. I can tell many examples of hindi films and songs copied from tamil. Please tell about them also.
kartik

11 Usha December 30, 2013 at 3:33 pm

An interesting post. I enjoyed the songs Konji Konji Pesi, Naane Varuven, Ponmeni Thazhuvaamal by P Susheela. En Vethanaiyil is another good song, but this song is missing. Can you give the link to Waheeda Rehman’s song. Kalyanikku Kalyaanam was also made in Hindi. I am sure the songs were retained in the Hindi fuilm also. I don’t remember the name of the Hindi film. Looking forward to your next post.

12 Ramachandran February 3, 2014 at 3:07 pm

Radhayin Nenjame song in Kanimuthu Papa (1972)is just an imitation of Khilte he gul yahan(1972).

13 N Venkataraman February 19, 2014 at 9:45 pm

@Usha
Thanks for visiting SoY. I was away for quite some time and missed out your comment (#11) and few other comments posted here. Both En vethanayil, and its original Jo hum ne daastaan apni sunai, Aap Kyon roye, are indeed good songs. I had mentioned in my write-up that both Yaar nee and Alibabavum 40 thirudargalum are frame by frame remake of the original Hindi versions and all most all the melodies of the original versions were retained in the Tamil version. I had presented two songs each from Yaar nee and Alibabavum 40 thirudargalum. I am not aware of any Hindi version of the Tamil film Kalyanikku Kalyaanam. Here are those two songs mentioned by you.

En vethanayil, Yaar Nee (1966) by P Susheela, lyrics Kavignar Kannadasan, music Veda

Jo hum ne daastaan apni sunai, Who Kaun Thi (1964) by Lata Mangeshkar, lyrics Raja Mehdi Ali Khan, music Madanmohan

Here is the dance number of Waheeda Rehman and its Hindi version. The Tamil version is different from the Hindi version.

Salaam babu Ali Babavum 40 Thirudargalum(1956) by Jikki, lyrics A Maruthkasi, music S Dakshinamurthy

Zara nazarein mila lo from the film Alibabaaur 40chor (1954) by Shamsad begum, lyrics Raja mehdi ali khan music S N tripathi and chitragupt.

14 N Venkataraman February 19, 2014 at 10:22 pm

@Kartik
There is one more article to come which will be on songs from remakes from Tamil to Hindi. AKji has mentioned this in his introduction. I could not find a single instance of Tamil film song adopted in Hindi films before the 80’s. In the comments section too no songs have been added. In the dubbed version too, besides the two songs that I have posted, no songs from Tamil to Hindi have been added. There is nothing fair or unfair about it. I will be too glad if you can post a few songs, but post them against the relevant article. Thanks for visiting SoY and my posts.

15 N Venkataraman February 19, 2014 at 10:39 pm

Mr. Ramachandran,
Thank you for visiting SoY and my post. Hope you enjoyed the songs and the article. You are right. Radhayin Nenjame is adopted from Khilte hain gul yahan. You will find both the versions in my first post on “Inspired and adopted songs” – comment 81

16 R.Nanjappa May 13, 2014 at 10:14 am

Adapting Hindi film tunes in Tamil has been a long tradition. The outstanding ones in the old days were : ‘En chintai noyum teeruma’ in Kaveri, from the Hindi superhit ‘Zindagi usiki hai’ from Anarkali; ‘porule illarkku tollaiya’ in Parasakthi from ‘Miltehi aankhen dil huva’ from Babul in Hindi; ‘Attattaippartidamal alai alai parkkirai’ in Rathakkanneer from the Hindi ‘ chandaki chandni mein jhume jhume dil mera’ from Poonam. The MDs here were under no compulsion to use the original tunes, as the fils were different.

Coming to lyrics in Tamil. when the Tamil film was a dubbed version, the Hindi lyrics used to be rendered in Tamil beautifully and poetically by one KAMBADASAN ( not to be confused with the more popular Kannadasan) This can be seen in the old gems like AVAN- Hindi AAH; GAURAVAM- Hindi AAN; VANARATHAM- Hindi URAN KHATOLA. Not much is known about this Kambadasan. It seems Lata wanted to sing the Tamil songs in Vana Ratham, and Kambadasan had made special efforts to use such Tamil words as would make it easy for her to sing in Tamil. T.A. Mothi sang quite beautifully the Rafi songs in Tamil. In AAN. one Varma sang in Tamil the famous Rafi solo in Hindi: Dil mein chupake pyar ka. This was beautifully rendered in Tamil by Kambadasan as ‘manadil meikkadal sooraiyai’. I don’t remember the others who sang. I have lost the original Tamil song book, so am unable to provide more details.

Incidentally, why have you left out the beautiful duet in Tamil Alibaba: “Masila unmaikkadale’ rendered by A.M.Rajah and Bhanumati? It is as sweet as the original Hindi: ‘Aye saba unse keh zara’ by Rafi saab and Asha. The Tamil lyrics by Marudakasi are also good.

On the whole, having listened to both versions for so many years, I feel the Hindi originals are superior from all angles- music-orchestration, voice quality,and lyrics. I feel the only exceptions in Tamil are A.M.Rajah ( who sang Mukesh’s songs in Avan, T.A.Mothi in Uran Khatola and Varma in Aan. May be I am prejudiced, I crave your indulgence. But this is what I feel. Your write up has been informative and entertaining. Thank you.

17 N Venkataraman May 13, 2014 at 8:44 pm

Mr. Nanjappa,
Welcome to SoY and thank for your comments.

Kaveri the 1955 film had some beautiful songs by Jikki and C S Jayaraman, composed by G Ramanathan and V Ramamoorthy. Udumali Narayana Kavi penned the lyrics. This song En chintai noyum teeruma inspired by Yeh zindagi usiki hai had a Telugu version too. I had plans to write a post on songs having three or more versions, then. The film Rathakkanneer too had three versions, Tamil, Telugu and Kannada. I was not aware of the song from Parasakthi.

All the songs you have mentioned above can form a part of my first post in the series relating to Tamil and Hindi Songs. As you have rightly mentioned the MDs here were under no compulsion to use the original tunes, as the films were different. If I can find the link to above songs I will post them at the site mentioned below. There are five articles in this series. Four have already appeared and this post is the fourth one. Similarly songs from dubbed versions were covered in the second post and you will find the films mentioned by you in that post. Besides you will find more Hindi-Tamil version songs in the post Dance ( R ) s of Deccan. The fifth post on “Songs from remakes – Tamil to Hindi” will appear sometime this year, hopefully by October-November.

If you are interested here is the link to all the three posts mentioned above
http://www.songsofyore.com/multiple-version-songs-5-hindi-and-tamil-film-songs-1-inspired-and-adopted-songs/
http://www.songsofyore.com/hindi-film-songs-dubbed-in-tamil-films/
http://www.songsofyore.com/south-indian-dancers-and-dances-in-hindi-films/

Yes I completely agree with you that the originals were always superior barring a few exceptions. But the Tamil versions with some beautiful lyrics made good listening. Thank you once again and hope you will be a regular visitor to SoY from now onwards.

18 N Venkataraman May 13, 2014 at 8:56 pm

Mr Nanjappa,
I tried to limit the post to 10 pair of songs. Hence I could include only two songs from Alibabavum 40 Thirudargalum. Here is the link to both the versions. Both the versions are good, but the original as you have said is better.

Maasila unnmai kaathale from Alibabavum 40 Thirudargalum(1956) by A M Rajah and P Bhanumati, lyrics A Maruthkasi, music S Dakshinamurthy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAXtHaje39E

Aye sab unse kah jhara , film Alibabaaur 40 chor (1954) by Asha Bhosle and Md. Rafi, lyrics Raja Mehdi Ali Khan music S N tripathi and Chitragupt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuLk38Zqyy0

19 Sandanadurai. R August 8, 2014 at 1:54 pm

Hello Shri Venkataraman & Ashok Vaishnav

I was trying to compile the list of Old Tamil songs with its equivalent Hindi versions. I could gather around 120 sets through a hard way by remembering the tunes of both Hindi and Tamil versions since I used to listen both. Your efforts and article became interesting to me and I am happy about your works. Thank you

20 N Venkataraman August 8, 2014 at 8:32 pm

Sandanadurai Ji,
Vanakkam.
Welcome to Songs of Yore. Thank You for your appreciation. Three more posts in this Tamil version series have appeared earlier here. This is the fourth post in this series. One more post on Songs from remakes from Tamil films to Hindi films will come out soon.

Ashok Vaishnav ji is the initiator cum prolific contributor of this broad based series on multiple version songs. All total 18 articles have been posted under this series. Today an article by Arun Kumar Deshmukh ji has come out on the Telugu version songs.

Since you are interested in Hindi film songs too, you will find the other write-ups in this site interesting.

Thank you once again

21 Snehasis Chatterjee November 7, 2014 at 10:57 pm

Need all the 3 songs sung by Lata Mangeshkar in the Tamil Film – AAN (1952) dubbed from Hindi Film Aan (Music : Naushad). Please help me.

Snehasis Chatterjee
chatterjee1962@gmail.com

22 Sandanadurai. R November 8, 2014 at 12:06 am

Hello

is the play list compiled by me so far on the copied and inspired songs in Tamil and Hindi. Information in your articles were also used. I have not included the songs upto 70’s only. many more to be included.

23 N Venkataraman November 8, 2014 at 3:01 pm

Snehasis ji,

I, too, am searching for the Tamil Version songs sung by Lata Mangeshkar from the film Aan since long. I have sent an e-mail to you.

Regards.

NVR

24 N Venkataraman November 8, 2014 at 3:31 pm

Sandanadurai ji,
It seems the first line of your comment (#22) is not complete.

Information are there to be shared and I,too, have collected them from different sources.

BTW, through your post, I got to know of the Inspired and adopted version of the song Ude Jab Jab Zulfe Teri. I was aware of the dubbed version.
Ilam Meesai ullah aambaligal vaarunga by T V Ratnam and Jamuna Rani (?), Lyrics Maruthkasi, music G Ramanathan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjM9gmmQxs0

25 Sandanadurai. R July 16, 2015 at 4:35 pm

Dear Shri Venkataraman

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgRuXAKstaZhLyqqw8xMy4Qk3FjFn5qfk

is the playlist which I had compiled . In my previous feedback I tried to provide this link. But I failed. That is why this was missing. In fact I have the index as excel sheet. If you give me your mail-id, i will forward the same to you. This list contains more than 400 sets of Hindi-Tamil songs

26 N Venkataraman July 16, 2015 at 8:26 pm

Sandanadurai ji,

This is really awesome compilation. I went through the link and there were more than 400 pair of songs. Thanks a lot for sharing your collection. I am sure there will be many new version songs, which I would like to add to my collection. It may come handy for my future posts.
Here is my mail-id.
venkatssa18@gmail.com
Thanks a lot.

27 Sandanadurai. R July 17, 2015 at 12:09 pm

Dear Venkataraman ji

So far I focused to compile all the old songs of 40s to 70s only. A few latest songs derived from very old Hindi songs are also included. However, I have not included the multiple version songs of A R Rahman, Deva, Ilayaraja, Harris jayaraj, Dhina, G V prakash, srikant deva, yuvan, Bharadwaj, and other new players. I have already compiled more than 200 sets of such new songs which will be posted later.

The play list given to you is the overall list. However, I have posted 10 more short play lists in YouTube categorized under Hindi to Tamil Dubbed, Tamil to Hindi Dubbed, Vedha’s songs, tune copy, Remake Movies, etc. If you use the keyword ” sandanadurai” in youtube search, you can view all the 10 categorized playlists. That may simplify your article writing.

Can I seek you help to identify such pairs ? I like to dig out all the old copied songs first before publishing the new songs which many youths may know.

If senior citizens put their heads together, it is possible to accomplish this task.

Thank you for your positives observations.

Like you I gathered the information from different sources including your articles and personal contacts. I could recollect a good number of pairs from my memories too.

Thus it is a collective work.

28 D P Rangan October 5, 2015 at 4:48 am

Borrowing tunes from films belonging to the category dubbed or remade is understandable. What was distressing to note was the lifting of wonderful and even iconic Hindi songs and using it in Tamil movies by Tamil music directors. If you hear both the versions together, barring extremely rare exceptions, the Tamil version is far inferior. I have held the view that orchestration in Hindi films is far superior and Tamil films are nowhere in sight. When you closely hear the songs in Tamil, in large instances it will be plain vocal and background tala in mridangam or tabla. In Hindi you will still hear background music following the vocal and very well integrated. As an example I am posting a song of Mukesh from his own production :

https://soundcloud.com/user978669606/kise-yaad-rakkhu-kise-bhul-jaa
Whenever I hear tamil film songs with excellent orchestra interludes between vocal, I always suspected it to be a lifting from Hindi. I had read through all the links above and my suspicions had been confirmed. I am now giving links to two songs from Tamil film. I feel they are copies. If someone can trace Hindi originals and post I will be very much indebted.

Yenna inbame ( Anbu)
https://youtu.be/Y9kuppWD79g

Thiraipottu namum (Rajarani)
https://youtu.be/hho5gqwZaRY

29 N Venkataraman October 6, 2015 at 5:44 pm

Mr D P Rangan,

Thank you for going through this post and other posts.

True, the original are always superior. I presume, when you say orchestration you mean western orchestration. Illayaraja and later A R Rehman are well known for the use of western orchestration in Tamil films. Previously in the films like Manthri Kumari orchestration was employed. In some of the MGR songs and Chandrababu’s songs we can find the use of Western orchestration.

Sorry I cannot recollect the original Hindi songs (if any) for the two songs composed by T R Pappa. T R Pappa did use the Anarkali duet Jaag dard ishq jag in the fim Aasai. We can find orchestration employed in some of T R Pappa’s Tamil Film songs, athough they may not match the orchestrations of Hindi films.

30 D P Rangan October 6, 2015 at 7:16 pm

Thanks for bothering to read my inconsequential observations and post a reply. Probably my diction is below par. I do not refer to western orchestration. In most of the Hindi songs you will always hear some instrumental music being played throughout in perfect harmony with the song. It adds zest to the song. If you listen to the Mukesh song , the Sarangi interlude played throughout lifts an outstanding song to still greater heights. That sort of improvisation is sadly lacking in most of the Tamil songs from a parallel classic period. With instruments galore and better recording technology, quality of music composed has taken a dive in Bollywood and Kollywood and it is in inverse proportion to facilities available. Mostly it is noise.
I had started listening to film music from a tender age and being a resident of Tamilnadu had access to tamil film songs only. After my migration to North and acquiring a smattering of Hindi, shifted gears and became an avid fan of Hindi film music. I do not disrespect M.Ds. like G. Ramanathan. Some of the best songs were those based on carnatic music and MLV had sung a good number of them. I have more than 100 of them in my collection and listen to them again and again. I have read biographies of lot of tamil film personalities written by the erudite Vamanan from libraries in Singapore which have a better of collection of Tamil literature than in Tamilnadu.

I hope you will concur with me when I uphold the superiority of Hindi film music of those years AK has popularised in this blog. Do you agree that the two tamil songs I posted could have Hindi origin. You are a great expert from what I have read of your comments. If you come across the Hindi originals please do post them for my sake.

31 Snehasis Chatterjee October 6, 2015 at 8:43 pm

Please help me to get all the Tamil songs sung by Lataji in the film AAN. want to collect for my work on Lataji. http://www.latageetkosh.com

32 D P Rangan October 6, 2015 at 11:56 pm

Venkataramanji I am adding one more song in Tamil to find its Hindi original.

Samarasam ulavum Idame – Seergazhi Govindarajan in Rambayin Kadal. The song is wonderful and only Seergazhi could sing in such a solemn manner. He was to Tamil film music what Manna Dey was in Hindi. It is sad that both the singers had been gathered to heaven.
I think the Hindi original was sung by Talat Mahmood.

33 ksbhatia October 6, 2015 at 11:58 pm

D P Rangan’ji ;
Your interest in prelude and interludes in hindi film songs have prompted me to look for songs which have both indian classical as well as western based instrumental touches . I think P Adinarayan Rao was the one such MD who had this quality ; as is obvious from following two songs :

1. Aa tu aa zara dil mein aa…..Lata, Mukesh……Phooloan ki seej

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0-aRPb4Rn0

This film had Laxmi kant Pyarelal as Asstt. MD’s . The song carries flavour of their music arrangements as of with Kalyanji Anandji ‘s melodies .

2.Aa bhi ja rasiya…. man mohana….Lata, Manna dey….Phooloan ki seej

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlGwo2IjURU
This song carries the interludes that one hear, similar to the ones ,composed by Shanker [ SJ ] , C. Ramchander , Vasant Deasai etc. I am sure the counter Tamilan song must be there .

Another film Suvarna sundari made in 1957 had good songs . The musical interludes were at par [ may be better] with any semi mythological hindi film songs composed by bollywood MDs . The film had its tamil version as well. One has to look out on internet for their similarities .
Here is one song from the hindi film :

Mujhe na bula……Lata…..Suvarna sundari…….P Adinarayan rao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEv8lDlIhsQ

34 Snehasis Chatterjee October 7, 2015 at 12:54 am

Is it possible to get the booklets of Tamil films AAN & VAN RATHAM? NEED THE XEROX OF THE FILM BOOKLETS to get the lyrics of those Tamil songs sung by Lata Mangeshkar. http://www.latageetkosh.com

35 Snehasis Chatterjee October 7, 2015 at 12:58 am

Is it possible to get the booklets of Tamil films AAN & VANA RATHAM? NEED THE XEROX OF THE FILM BOOKLETS to get the lyrics of those Tamil songs sung by Lata Mangeshkar. http://www.latageetkosh.com

36 D P Rangan October 7, 2015 at 1:59 am

Bhatiaji

So gracious of you to go through my pathetic post and consider it worthy of replying. I have listened all the three songs.

Let me try to explain once again. Please listen to the vocal rendition part of the song alone. In the second and third song what you hear is only vocal music with tabla in the background and nothing else. They are saved from being ranked below par solely because of the classical raga on which they were based. In the first song there is a semblance of a violin strumming. I am once again reposting the Mukesh song from Anurag.

https://soundcloud.com/user978669606/kise-yaad-rakkhu-kise-bhul-jaa

You will observe the sarangi playing throughout the song – vocal and instrumental in perfect harmony. Had it been only Mukesh voice and tabla accompaniment it would have become pedestrian. Such composition was the norm rather than exception in Hindi film songs, an element sadly lacking in most of tamil film songs. Even where tamil music directors lifted tunes from Hindi mastereos, they did a poor rendition in the local version and to me it appeared as an insult to the original. The background score need not be western instrument at all.
When you hear such an integrated music it sounds like the great works of Western masters like Bach, Beethoven, Mozart. What I am stating did not occur in cent percent of Hindi film songs also.

I wish I can post a clip of a carnatic classical song where late M.S. Gopalakrishnan, a great violinist at once at home in both schools of music of India and considered a genius by Yehudi Menuhin accompanied the vocalist. There is no song he did not know. He will play the song in perfect unison with the vocalist throughout. In some concerts he used to outshine the vocalist.

I hope I have made my point clear this time at least. If not I will have to throw in the towel and vanish from the scene.

37 ksbhatia October 7, 2015 at 3:04 pm

D P Rangan’ji ;

You have set a ball rolling by citing example of Mukesh song from Anurag……Kisse yaad rakha kisse bhula diya . I have listened to this song again and again for its masterly crafted rendering vis a vis its background soothing instrumental accompaniment . As you stated it is the perfect harmony of vocal and sarangi which uplift the song to such a great melody . Such gems are rare to find [hidden from the present generations and left for the elderly to enjoy] .

Following are a few of such songs which I consider as close to Anurag’s song . I will start with two or three songs which have vocal + single instrument arrangement followed by songs having progressively architectural inhanced orchestration keeping in view the lyrics and situation in the film . It will be difficult for me to find their Tamil equivalents in case comparison is required . Yes , we might find from the remakes like of A V M or Gemini movies .

1.Man mohana bade jhothhe……Lata…..Seema ….SJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewi3GN7RKNc

2. Mitwa lagi re yeh kaisi……Talat…….Devdas……S D B

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=218py1kN1AU

3. Katte hain dukh mein din….Lata…..Parcchaiyaan……CR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWBs0LVETWk

4.Hum kitna roye…..Lata…..Shin shinaki babla boo…..CR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgmQGjdKAu0

5. Kaise din beetey kaise beeti…. Lata….Anuradha…..Pt. Ravi Shanker

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzNcKTcZoHw

6. Koi kisi ka deewana na bane…..Lata….Sargam……CR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YazPJ6yTzsM

7. Rote rote guzar gayi raat re …..Lata…..Buzdil ….SDB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBH0LmGHyc4

8.Rasik balma …..Lata ….Chori chori……SJ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvZde0wLafU

Last three songs indicate how orchestra over took the single instrumental accompaniments ; still falling into this class .

38 N Venkataraman October 7, 2015 at 4:53 pm

Rangan ji,
Since T R Pappa had used Hindi films tunes earlier, I will not rule out the possibility.
Samarasam ulavum Idame is indeed a wonderful song; poignant lyrics by Kavi Maruthakasi. I am not sure whether there exists a original Hindi song rendered by Talat Mahmood. But, the song is very much akin to Aeri main toh prem deewani rendered by Lata Mangeshkar, music by Roshan, for the film Naubahar (1952).

39 D P Rangan October 7, 2015 at 7:12 pm

Venkataramanji

Thanks for your response. I know you are very meticulous in your approach and write great posts after doing extensive research. With all due respects to you, I beg to state that at least to my non musical ears they do not appear to be so. The song from Nau Bahar, both versions, is an out of world tune created by Roshan in raga Bheempalasi or Abheri as it is known in carnatic music whereas Samarasam does not appear to be derived from this raga. I did hear this song in Hindi by Talat Mahmood more than 30 years ago. Is it not in the list of 400 songs composed by Sandanaduraiji. I will have to rely on the phenomenon of serendipity to locate the original. I believe in the Tamil proverb “Muyarchi thiruvinaiyakkum”. Once again I thank you for devoting certain time to respond to my request.

40 mumbaikar8 October 7, 2015 at 7:46 pm

D P Rangan,
Are you looking for this song sir,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eJikSJaIqQ
and here is one with Rafi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Vu80s45OY

41 D P Rangan October 7, 2015 at 9:53 pm

How I love this site. There are experts at hand all the time 24/7 to solve riddles. Mumbaikarji y0u have hit the nail on the head. Talat Mahmood bhajan is indeed the mother of the tamil song. Did you listen to the tamil song. I did not post any link for it. I will have to attribute magical powers to you. For once I have to reverse my opinion. Tamil version is more poignant to hear. The singer is well known for rendering such songs.
https://youtu.be/ATBNyaWxTr4
Please listen and tell me your opinion.

42 D P Rangan October 7, 2015 at 10:07 pm

Bhatiaji

Thank God you rescued me. Otherwise as stated earlier I would have to quit the site. I have in my collection everyone of those 8 musical pieces. I see you are also a fan of C Ramchandra. He was my first reason to involve me in Hindi film songs. It started with Anarkali. I did purchase a few casettes devoted to him. They were far from adequate. By diligent searching over years, wandering through markets in Singapore and Kuala Lampur I built up my library. You Tube has made it very easy of access. At the same time it has taken away the thrill of hunting and discovering new songs. Now there is a flourishing industry turning out CD after CD of Hindi film songs, singerwise, subjectwise and what not at a ridiculously low price of Rs. 25 per CD. It is sold on pavements and that too helped me.

43 Sandanadurai. R October 8, 2015 at 3:01 pm

Dear Shri Rangan
I enjoyed your statement “Mumbaikarji y0u have hit the nail on the head”
This is the apt response to Ms. Mumbaikar8.
I never expected that Samarasam Ulavum idam…… is also a copied song.
It is a pleasant surprise to me.
Thanks to Mumbaikarji for the revelation.
Thanks to you for triggering this discussion.

Can any one get the Hindi original for the following Tamil song?
from Tamil Film Kaathalithaal Podhuma composed by Vedha( Vedhachalam)

44 mumbaikar8 October 8, 2015 at 5:47 pm

D P Rangan,
Yes I did listen to the Tamil song, as suggested I do not have any magical power, to reach the mother of the Tamil song I had to listen to it.
I am expert (Hans I am not too modest) at control “c” and control “v” and that is all I did to reach Tamil song, the tune of that song led me to a Rafi song, which I am familiar with, going back to the you tube with those lyrics I got the song you were looking for.
I cannot give you my opinion on Tamil song, because I do not understand that language at all, I believe, lyrics is very important component of a song and to come to any conclusion without understanding the lyrics would be unfair.
I have one question for you about reversing you opinion, did you listen to the Rafi version from Chakradhari?
Sandanadurai. R,
You are most welcome, the pleasure is always mine.

45 D P Rangan October 8, 2015 at 6:31 pm

Mumbaikar8

I did listen to it. Who throttled it. I remember a very old picture in Tamil by this title where P U Chinnappa was the hero. I think it is about a vaishnavite saint. As is usual habit with such saints, they get married very early and to escape responsibility turn to God and the poor suffering wife is always in the background hoping for a restoration of lost ardour from their worse half. Guru Raghavendra’s wife committed suicide after her husband turned sanyasi. His brindavanam is located in Mantralayam Road. This is for your information in case you are interested to make a pilgrimage to this spot.

I fully concur with you. Without understanding lyrics, it is not possible to appreciate the song fully and tantamounts to admiring an empty hulk. I have a nice solution for you. You know with extension to life these days, intellect should also follow in tandem. You must have come across individuals in their 70s pursuing post graduation courses. Presuming you are still part of this great metropolis, it should be possible to locate a teacher of Tamil language and start mastering this too. You can then explore Kollywood songs but I cannot guarantee it will bring a smile in your face, especially if you start from current age.

That song in Tamil stresses uncertainties of human life and how everyone born is reduced to dust at the end. The scene is set at a burning ghat and as expected the singer is a recluse and probably frustrated individual. If I have offended you, I seek your pardon like criminals in the political arena or entrepreneur rank getting advance bail from our complacent system of justice.

46 D P Rangan October 8, 2015 at 6:42 pm

@Sandanadurai

Admire your parents for conferring such a nice name for you. To speak in a light vein your parents might have hoped their son, if not born with a silver spoon in his mouth, might make it happen for the subsequent generation. They proved prophetic indeed. You have become intellectually very rich and compiled a great list of Tamil songs and their Hindi equivalents. When you request for a Hindi equivalent, I am simply nonplussed. Our ancestors were indeed great genius in compiling adages. I am referring to the tamil proverb – Even elephants slip. I regret I may not be of much help as it is like finding a needle in a haystack. I am not gifted as mumbaikar8 to score hits at the first time. I myself am requesting Venkataramanji and now you to find Hindi originals for the two Tamil song link I posted above at//28 ante.

47 D P Rangan October 8, 2015 at 6:48 pm

Mumbaikar8

I have also a heard a Rafi song with a similar lyric. I give below a crude version as I am unable to follow complicated lyrics in full.

Maattikke putthale kisinama kaltuvar

or something like that. Please enlighten me as to its origin and history, i.e. film etc.

48 Sandanadurai. R October 8, 2015 at 9:11 pm

Hello Chatterjee

Listen to the you tube Playlist

and for the songs of AAN and VAANARATHAM(UranKhatola) songs. Also other dubbed movie songs.

You can also play the complete list

Copying tunes is a great art. Whoever had copied had done fairly a good job and made the original tunes more popular among non-hindi speaking people. Let us appreciate their efforts.

In my opinion, there is no need to compare the works.

Almost every Music directors of yesteryear movies had copied many popular Hindi tunes either on their own or on the demands from the Producers.

Modern Theatres owner cum director T.R.Sundaram had ensured that all his movies had Hindi tunes for the most of the songs.
Listen to for the copied songs of Modern Theatres.

Enjoy

49 Sandanadurai. R October 8, 2015 at 9:21 pm

Chatterji

for AAN and dubbed movie songs alone.

for modern theatre

for total copied songshttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgRuXAKstaZhLyqqw8xMy4Qk3FjFn5qfk>

these links are missing in my earlier comment for unknown reasons

50 Sandanadurai. R October 8, 2015 at 9:23 pm

Chatterji

for AAN and dubbed movie songs alone::: and

51 Sandanadurai. R October 8, 2015 at 9:27 pm
52 Sandanadurai. R October 8, 2015 at 9:34 pm

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgRuXAKstaZiOBIRlOc-iw_lzMxtmjjFH gives the list of copied songs of Modern Theatres.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgRuXAKstaZhLyqqw8xMy4Qk3FjFn5qfk :::this link provides around 423 sets of copied songs compiled so far.

In my earlier comments , i made the mistake of giving these links with Hyper Link within . Such texts are not processed.

Now I could locate the reason for the truncated comments!!!!!!

53 Snehasis Chatterjee October 8, 2015 at 9:40 pm

Thanks a lot Sandanadurai. R.

But still not found the Tamil Film Songs from AAN sung by Lata Mangeshkar.

Help me please.

Regards,
Snehasis Chatterjee

54 Snehasis Chatterjee October 8, 2015 at 9:56 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aan

you will find the list of songs sung by Lataji in Tamil. click on sl. no. 6 of the content. need those tamil songs from the film AAN.

55 Sandanadurai. R October 9, 2015 at 2:02 pm

Mumbaikar ji

I am sure the following Tamil song is derived from Hindi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoJZVlfwW78
I could not locate its original.

Please make a try to locate it.

I hope you may be able to find a needle in a haystack( as mentioned by Mr.Rangan).

Similarly, in the Woh Kaun Thi remake as Yaar Nee in Tamil there is one song which looks like a copy from Punjabi tune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWoZlQxY_dA

Every song of original Hindi Movie has its copy in Tamil.

But for the above song, I do not see its equivalent in Woh Kaun Thi. I feel the above song sequence was included in Tamil Remake.

56 mumbaikar8 October 9, 2015 at 5:13 pm

Sandanadurai. R,
This is no needle in the haystack, this needle is right in the needle case, any music lover of 60’s will get it.
This is the famous Teesri mazil song O haseena zulfon wali.
Here it is,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVIE72WqEcI

57 N Venkataraman October 9, 2015 at 5:23 pm

Mr. D P Rangan
Intially I felt traces of Abheri in the said song and hence jumped to the conclusion.
Mumbaikar ji has this amazing ability to dig out rare/version songs. Hats off to Mumbaikar ji. I was not aware of this original Talat Mahmood song. Thanks to both of you for bringing forth to my/our notice this beautiful song.
Going with your belief in the Tamil proverb “Muyarchi thiruvinaiyakkum”, I will try to find out the originals for the two Tamil songs you mentioned.
It was a pleasure reading your erudite comments and please continue to enlighten us with your thoughts, anecdotes and melodies.

58 mumbaikar8 October 9, 2015 at 5:51 pm

D P Rangan,
I did not get what you mean by “Who throttled it”
Thanks for the solution. Learning languages has been problem for me right from my school days I used to pass my languages, either by the grace of god or by marks of grace. I wish, I had patience, I would love to learn two languages I love that is Bengali and Urdu.
Are you talking about this Rafi song from Sheroo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=18&v=9v_tIuICWbg

59 D P Rangan October 9, 2015 at 6:58 pm

Mumbaikar8

Hats off to you. Whenever I handle the needle I end up with a mutilated hand. In your case it seems to be mortally afraid of you and leads you to the right spot. The Mohammad Rafi song hardly ran for one and a half minute and seemed incomplete. I felt it was throttled by the one who posted it.

I agree with you. Language learning is an inborn skill. I have read about an itinerant English peddler of Bible book in the 16th century who knew more than 30 languages he picked up during the course of his peregrinations around the Continent as Europe was known in those days. Coming to current times I know of a fellow South Indian I became chummy with when I came to Delhi who had this rare skill. He picked up Punjabi very fast by listening to it as it was bandied about in the big hall he was sharing with them with very little work to do, an usual norm in Government of those days. Before long he could talk like a native. Punjabi is a boisterous and free flowing language. Once a contest was held between him and a Punjabi colleague on invective utterance competition. Before long the native Punjabi threw in the towel and retreated and he won it hands down.

Thanks for posting that nice song of Rafi. Full of philosophy and tuned so well by the master Madan Mohan who was adept in handling such scenarios.

60 D P Rangan October 9, 2015 at 7:06 pm

Venkataramanji

Very much appreciate your comments. Do not strain yourself in looking for the originals. It can be kept in the back of your mind as you go about your deep research into the past for material to write a post in future. I also expect mumbaikar8 to locate it for us as the kind God has honed her skill as a tracker like a blood hound. In this field patience is a virtue we have to cultivate.

61 Sandanadurai. R October 9, 2015 at 11:00 pm

Mumbaikar ji

Thank you for your response.
I am sorry. I gave the wrong link earlier.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJMoMWDFnfE.
is the actual Tamil song link for which Hindi original may please be located. The teesri manzil song and its Tamil version is already included in the copied song list.

62 arvind October 10, 2015 at 8:32 am

#55
….yaar nee… tamil movie song sounds very similar to the …Himalaya ki god mein (1965)….movie song ….tu raat khadi thi chhat pe … : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzGd_vTfbu0

63 Sandanadurai. R October 10, 2015 at 1:53 pm

Dear Arvind
Thank you for your efforts.
As you feel this hindi song from Himalya ki god mein sounds closer.
But I feel there may be some other song may be the original bcoz the Tamil Music Director VEDHA used to copy 100% of the original.
Let us get the views of other friends too.

You can explore the another song similar to this( Punjabi style):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHk3W1NLF4M
from Tamil Movie KAVITHA(1962) from modern theatres. Music Director is K.V.Mahadevan.

64 Sandanadurai. R October 10, 2015 at 2:41 pm

There are many more Tamil songs copied from Hindi in the olden days
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ4Z_VExVSU
from an unpopular Tamil movie :mangaikku mangalyame pirathanam

65 mumbaikar8 October 11, 2015 at 6:48 am

Sandanadurai. R,
I cannot get the songs you are looking for.
It depends upon how receptive the brain is, you listen to a song ten times but the bell will not ring but if you listen the same song after some time even once you might get it.
I will keep trying and hope to I get it one fine day.

66 Sandanadurai. R October 11, 2015 at 2:41 pm

Mumbaikar

I am sorry to trouble you.
I can understand the difficulties in finding the similar songs. I have good experience for the past three to four years.
Even though I do not understand the meaning of hindi songs, I used to listen to many old songs starting from my college(REC) days. That is why I could link many Tamil and Hindi songs on my own. Of course, many youtube friends also helped me a lot to build the play list of 430 sets of OLD copied songs so far. I am sure it is NOT complete.

Please take your own sweet time and try to find it out. I have a big list of such suspected songs. Let me not load you too much.

119H-Hum tu pee ke chale – Albeli – (1955) – Hemant Kumar – MD – Ravi Hindi Albeli – (1955) RAVI
119H-Kahe naina ladi-jhamela-1953 hindi jhamela C. Ramchandra
119T-Unnai-Kann theduthey tamil kanavane kann kanda deivam A..RAMARAO
when I located this pair , I was so much thrilled. Unfortunately The Albeli(exact original) song is removed from youtube.

67 D P Rangan October 11, 2015 at 6:31 pm

@Sandanadurai

Just stumbled on this

Vennila jodhiyai veesude

Hindi – Mushkurathi hui chandini – Lata Mangeshkar & Hemant Kumar from Albeli (1957) MD Ravi – Actor Pradeep Kumar, Geeta Bali

https://youtu.be/Sj9vja9zN6o – not a live video

68 D P Rangan October 11, 2015 at 6:57 pm

I do not recollect who it was that uttered –
Life has strange twists and turns.
In this field you do not know what you are in for. Here is serendipity at its best.

Came across songs with close similarity, i.e. not the usual Hindi-Tamil variety but Hindi to Hindi

Lata Mangeshkar – Naach (1959) N. Dutta Lyrist : Sahir Ludyanvi
https://youtu.be/eCsKSGPxg1A

Mukesh – Anari (1959)
https://youtu.be/69pPYkGiEAQ
Request the experts to pass their verdict.

69 Sandanadurai. R October 11, 2015 at 8:06 pm

Nice Rangan.
Another copied song from Manamagan Thevai :
160H-Chale Ho Kahan-Bhagam Bhag (1956) OP Nayyar hindi Bhagam Bhag 1956 O.P.Nayyar (1956)
160T-hoom hoom maatten ulle vida maattene tamil Manamagan Thevai G Ramanathan (1957)
This set is already in the play list.

G Ramanathan had also copied many hindi tunes

70 N Venkataraman October 13, 2015 at 5:29 pm

Mr.Sadanandadurai,
#66
Here the link to the Hindi original song Hum tu pee ke chale (song no.3).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk0Priiblbc
The music for the fim Kanavane kann kanda deivam was scored by Hemant Kumar and Addepalli Rama Rao. Earlier in his career, Ravi, the music director of Albeli was the assistant to Hemant Kumar. Both the films were released in 1955 and Hemant Kumar was associated with both the films and the songs. So it is difficult to ascertain which song was composed first. Jhamela, for which C Ramchandra was the music director, was released in 1953. As you have pointed out the Hindi song from Albeli was the exact original of the Tamil song. Interestingly, C Ramachandra scored the music for the Hindi film Devta (1956) which was the remake of the Tamil film Kanavane kann kanda deivam.

71 N Venkataraman October 13, 2015 at 5:31 pm

Sorry Mr. Sandanadurai for misspelling your name.

72 D P Rangan October 13, 2015 at 6:32 pm

@Venkataraman

Thanks for Radio Ceylon link. I never knew they are still broadcasting and continuing Hindi programme. I thought it was a casualty in the wake of Tamil tiger feud. Earlier in their hey days they thrived on advertisements from India. After Vividh Bharathi started their own commercial programme, it received a set back. I am glad they are still continuing. They must be having the largest source of Tamil and Hindi film songs which all the stations of AIR put together may not be able to match. At least so far as tamil film music is concerned, old films and songs are better preserved in Malaysia. If you go to the Masjid India area in Kuala Lampur, you can buy tons of them at ridiculously low prices. Gone many times there from Singapore. I was not keen on collection then and lost a golden opportunity. No use in crying over spilt milk.

Do you mean the original version of Kanavane …. film in Tamil and Telugu had an association with Hemant Kumar.

Keep my two requests in the back of your mind. One day you will provide the originals.

Further to my post @68, I forgot to mention one more song – Aasman par hai Kuda from Phir Subha Hogi sung by Mukesh. M D was Khayyam and the film was released in 1953 well before the other films. It appears there was very good camaraderie among music directors to share their compositions.

73 Snehasis Chatterjee October 14, 2015 at 1:10 pm

Is it possible to get the booklets of Tamil films AAN & VANA RATHAM? NEED THE XEROX OF THE FILM BOOKLETS to get the lyrics of those Tamil songs sung by Lata Mangeshkar. http://www.latageetkosh.com

74 Snehasis Chatterjee October 14, 2015 at 1:14 pm

Please help me to get all the Tamil songs sung by Lataji in the film AAN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aan). Want to collect for my work on Lataji. http://www.latageetkosh.com

click on sl. no. 6 of the content. need those tamil songs from the film AAN.

Please help, please.

75 Sandanadurai. R October 14, 2015 at 4:50 pm

Hello Snehasis Chatterji

Please go to Youtube.

Make this request to Mr.Vembar Manivannan.

This gentleman digs out many old tamil songs and uploads to youtube.

I could not forward your text to him through the comments column in youtube.

The Tamil film name seems to be MURATTU ADIYAAL (AAN).

You may please use the following youtube link to reach him and make your request:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaDcqENm7CM

It may be an impossible task to get the old booklets of these songs.
in 50s and 60s I used to see film song booklets. I had a good collection too in those days. But I do not see such booklets now a days.

Through another link you can reach Professor Kandasamy to get possible help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8WPdb_eOhA

He has a large collection of Tamil songs and movies.
I am in regular touch with him. Very cool and cordial gentleman.
THOODIPROFSSK@gmail.com is his mail id.
He has a big circle of friends ( senior citizens and youths).

Please make a try.

You are doing a great work.

76 N Venkataraman October 14, 2015 at 5:28 pm

Mr. D P Rangan
As far as I know, the Hindi broadcast of Radio Ceylon was discontinued in 2008 and revived in 2012. I am not sure when the Tamizh broadcast was discontinued. Soon after the victory of the DMK in the Tamizhnadu elections in 1967, there was a strong political undercurrent. The strong desire to create a separate Tamizh Eelam saw a resistance to the continuation Tamizh services. I believe the Bharathiyar song Sindhu nadhiyin isai nilavinile was banned by Radio Ceylon because of the lines Singala theevinuKkor paalam amaipom, seduvai meduruththi veedhi samaipoom. In 2012 the Tamizh broadcast was resumed with the Hindi services.
Coming to your query –
‘Do you mean the original version of Kanavane …. film in Tamil and Telugu had an association with Hemant Kumar’.
Yes, the opening credits of the film mentions Hemanta Kumar and A Rama Rao as the music directors. I am not sure whether this film had a Telugu version. But a Malayalam version was made in the eighties.
Regarding the songs mentioned in #68 and the one added above (#72) I leave it to the experts to give their opinion.
Thanks a lot.

77 D P Rangan October 14, 2015 at 6:16 pm

Mr. Venkataraman

Thanks for updating my knowledge. You have given me a reason to dust my old Sony Transistor and start listening to Radio Ceylon. If you are aware of any android application to listen to Radio Ceylon, it is also welcome. I know USA helped them to set up a powerful radio beamed towards India. If you are in places like Thirunelveli, you could listen to many more of their services in Medium Wave. I think their broadcast is not as powerful nowadays and lot of static disturbances. I know I pose conundrums to you. Please forgive me for such niggles.

78 Snehasis Chatterjee October 14, 2015 at 6:19 pm

Respected Sandanadurai. R, thanks for your kind co-operation. Regards

79 PREMANAND K S January 2, 2016 at 12:36 pm

Dear Friends,

A very nice effort. I heard that the song sung by the legend TMS in the film Vallavankku Vallavan was a remake of the song by the legend Mohammed Rafi for a Hindi Film. Since, I do not know Hindi, I was not able to locate and hear that Hindi Song. But I like the songs of Mohammed Rafi and Kishore Kumar. After a very long time, I located the song and enjoyed the song in this website….. Thank you very much….Regards,

80 Suresh kumar August 8, 2016 at 1:21 pm

It’s very pleasing to know such details of Hindi to Tamil remake and vice versa.i like to inform that I have a small collection of 88000 songs.consisting of Hindi,malayalam ,Tamil,and Telugu. Of these coll,i have come across few hundred songs remake in different languages, that includes English,for example when I was a little girl ,from tora tora bang bang is chinna Penn aana podhele.can continue if I get review. Thanking all members .by the way I am Suresh Kumar tech in BSNL Coimbatore. Contact 9489666876 for your needs

81 AK August 8, 2016 at 1:55 pm

Suresh Kumar,
Welcome to SoY. If you have 88000 songs, it should comprise all the songs available in the public domain.

82 Suresh kumar August 9, 2016 at 10:46 pm

Yes ji but I am not proud about it .I started collecting from different sources.some as cassette &LP and CD and some from public domain.since 1976,come to the point, as far as I’m concerned not all songs are remake,while listening it seems to be so . 70 pre cent are just prelude or bgm of the original , but tune remaining the same. point 2 ,only few songs has the same meaning as of situation,only 60percent are original copy ,rest are inspired.only 30 percent listen to the song,lyric,bgm,instruments used, rest just hear , while listening to good music there is no language as hurdle .copy in and from Telugu.english , Malayalam are available ,so class or superiorty does not arise, it all depends on the person and language,this experience comes from 30 years in recording and editing and mixing work, not to hurt anyone’s views. Thanks , regards Sureshkumar

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