Multiple Versions Songs (6) – Both versions by female playback singer(s) (1) – Abhi To Main Jawan Hun

March 6, 2013

Guest article by Ashok M Vaishnav

(The series on multiple version songs, started by Mr Ashok Vaishnav, is now getting multidimensional.  Besides three parts by Ashokji, we also had Mr Arunkumar Deshmukh writing on Hindi-Marathi, and Mr N Venkataraman on Hindi-Tamil version songs.  Ashokji resumes where he left off – now with all-female versions.  This he proposes to do in two parts, which he explains in his article – AK)

Multiple version songsWe continue our journey of the multiple versions songs through a mirror-image of all-male version songs sub-category – multiple version songs in Hindi films – all versions rendered by female playback singer(s).

The instances presented here have cases, mostly where (both the) versions are rendered by the same female playback singer. However, we also have instances where different versions are rendered by different singers. Here also reasons for such a different selection vary from commercial considerations to film’s situational demands to music director or director’s own high standards of perfection.

There cannot be a better song than Abhi to Main Jawan Hoon to begin this category. You Tube has a huge number of clips when you search for this song, of which I have selected these four versions:

Afsana (1951), lyrics Gafil Harnalvi, music Husnlal Bhagatram, singer Lata Mangeshkar

Those who have savoured the music of the Golden Era in the glorious days of radio would recall that this song was the signature tune of the weekly programme on old film songs every Thursday night on Radio Ceylon, hosted by Manohar Mahajan.  Husnlal Bhagatram’s haunting tune would be an irresistible magnet to draw the listener to the radio.

 

Here is the well known ghazal by Malika Pukhraj with the same mukhadaa, written by Hafeez Jalandhari, who also wrote Pakistan’s national anthem.

Now we have Tahira Sayed, daughter of Mallika Pukhraj in live concert.  She is obviously not deterred by legendary status this ghazal has acquired in her mother’s voice, and gives an outstanding rendering.

Noor Jehan in Pakistani film Abhi To Main Jawan Hun

 

a) One version seems to have been recorded, but another version finally gets the nod in the film.

1. Mere liye woh gham-e-intazaar chhod gaye by Meena Kapur from Anokha Pyaar (1948), lyrics Wahzad Lakhani, music Anil Biswas

 

The version by Lata Mangeshkar in this clip is an audio. It is understood that only Meena Kapur version was carried in the film, but the record was released in the voice of Lata Mangeshkar as Meena Kapur was unwell. However, perceptible changes in the scale and in the orchestration do not go unnoticed.

YT video clip on Lata Mangeshkar version has this comment:

“The singer is Meena Kapoor. Lata only sang the record version of this song. All the songs picturized on Nargis were sung by Meena Kapoor, while the ones on Nalini Jaywant were by Lata. For the record version, however, Lata sang even Meena Kapoor’s songs”.

 

2. Gore gore hathon mein mehdi racha ke by Asha Bhosle from Parineeta (1953), lyrics Bharat Vyas, music Arun Kumar Mukherjee

The Asha Bhosle version figures at the top in Asha Bhosle ‘specials’ on an earlier post on SoY. The song has a beautiful version by Geeta Dutt too and discussed at length in comments of that article.

 

b) Each Version used in a very different context

3. Unko ye shikayat hai ki by Lata Mangeshkar from Adaalat (1958), lyrics Rajendra Krishna, music Madan Mohan

Here is the version that we have listened to innumerable number of times

 

To this so popular, Madan Mohan’s signature ghazal composition, we have an interesting mushaera-style rendition, too in the film.

 

We would take a look at “A Happy and A Sad Song” subcategory of All Female Multiple Version songs in the part (2) of this sub-category.

Indeed, this category of multiple versions is Evergreen one…..

{ 63 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Khyati Bhatt March 6, 2013 at 10:00 am

Very interesting topic you have chosen. Music lovers like me, growing in 70’s has least amount of information about these kind of songs. The only category that I know is just bhajans, specially Meerabai’s.
Thank you Ak Sir and Ashok ji for this post and information.

2 Khyati Bhatt March 6, 2013 at 10:12 am

I am little confused. The first song in the list “Abhi to main jawaan hoon…” was recorded by many singers, but not for the movie, whereas other songs in the list are for the same movie. So, is the topic open for both filmi and non-filmy songs? I thought that and hence wrote Meerabai in my previous comment. There are few bhajans of hers used in different movies. Like the bhajan Jo tum todo piya…. is in Jhanak Jhanak paayal baaje-51 and in Silsila-81 too.

3 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 6, 2013 at 10:12 am

@Khyati Bhatt:
The beauty of SoY as a platform for HFM fans, is that now it has become a favourite hunting place for people from all walks of ‘age’, making it more more universal and versatile.
As AKji has been (modestly) saying, it is the readers who make a blog what it is intrinsically worth. Well, to me, it is a both way live excahnge of (honest) views, obviously expanding the body of knowledge about HFM ( of the ‘yore’ period).

4 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 6, 2013 at 10:15 am

@ Khhyati Bhatt
We would be undertaking a full fledged sets of articles in the series on different versions of Bhajans – both for films as wll as non-film versions, including quite a few in pure classical mould.

5 dustedoff March 6, 2013 at 10:19 am

Some lovely songs there, Ashokji – thank you. I especially, especially love Unko yeh shikaayat hai.
You mention songs where one version was originally recorded, but another was used in the film. This may also be true of Tum jiyo hazaaron saal from Sujata, which was initially recorded in Geeta Dutt’s voice (I remember listening to that on an LP my parents own). But the song in the film is in Asha’s voice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4urJ3dG7Ke0

6 Khyati Bhatt March 6, 2013 at 11:28 am

Thank you Ashokji for the reply. I am new to this blog and reading past posts right now. All of you are doing such a good work for all HFM fans.

7 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 6, 2013 at 11:56 am

@Dusted Off
Now that you mention it, I too, now, do recall that Geeta Dutt version- I also have that record, but can not play them any more now, since my record player is now being resurrection.

8 gaddeswarup March 6, 2013 at 1:19 pm

Rajraj pointed this out in a thread in The Hub that I mentioned earlier. There are two versions of ‘jadugar balma’ in Naghma 1953, one by Shamshad Begum used in the film and one by Amirbai. I prefer slightly the Amirbai version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgHmIinN-e0

9 Ashok M Vaishnav March 6, 2013 at 2:02 pm

@ gaddeswarup:
Thanks.
Here is Shamshad Begum version, http://youtu.be/4l09ICAuKj4, for the records.

10 AK March 6, 2013 at 2:50 pm

@Khyati Bhatt
Just to add to what Ashokji has said. I treat the non-film songs of the era as a related genre as these were equally popular. Some singers such as Jagmohan were known almost entirely for their non-film songs, but others such as KL Saigal, CH Atma, Pankaj Mullick, Talat Mahmood and Hemant Kumar were as famous for their non-film songs as film songs. So these would be covered without any distinction. But more importantly as you would notice from earlier posts, our discussion veers off to purely classical also when we discuss songs based on classical Ragas, on which Subodh Agrawal is doing a series.

@Dustedoff
Madhu, I also thought that Tum jiyo hazaro saal was sung by Geeta Dutt. But today I come across a most amazing discovery at this site dedicated to Geeta Dutt, which states that she was at the receiving end of most cases of songs recorded in her voice, but deleted or recorded in another voice in the film version. I quote what it has to say about this song:

“(1) Tum Jiyo Hazaaron Saal – Sujata (1959) (Not used, not released. Re-recorded by Asha) – MD : S D Burman

This would be the most “controversial” song of Geeta Dutt. The birthday song “Tum Jio Hazaron saal” from the film Sujata was supposedly first recorded in Geetaji’s voice. It was said to be released on the records as well (but we do not know if such records exist or not). Later the same song was recorded in Ashaji’s voice. This was the version which was used in the movie. All these years, the song sung by Asha Bhosle was credited to Geetaji. The song what we see in the movie and on all the available records/cassette compliations etc is the version recorded in Ashaji’s voice. It continued to be wrongly credited to Geeta Dutt. Asha Bhonsle and R D Burman had to literally convince HMV and get the credits corrected.”

So what you or I or Ashokji remember as Geeta Dutt version of the song on the record had all along been Asha Bhosle version, and we were conditioned to think it as sung by Geeta Dutt because of wrong crediting by HMV! If true, can anything be more fantastic? (There are songs in which there is a thin distinction between the voices of Geeta Dutt and Asha Bhosle, and a listener might make a mistake. This is one such song).

@Gaddeswarup,
The Amirbai Karnataki version of Jadugar balma has surfaced on YT in the internet era. Hindi Film Geet Kosh includes in the list of version songs. This is perhaps not the case of one version being rejected. Amirbai might have perhaps sung it later as Talat Mahmood sang Chal ud ja re panchhi. We do not know the background how these came about. Only an insider who was around can throw some light on this. It does sound better, but could be because of the novelty.

11 samir March 6, 2013 at 3:06 pm

Dear Ashok, Thanks for continuing with this novel series of different version songs. I likes all version of ‘ abhi to main jawan hun’ but arguably Lata’s version is most haunting.But then I am always bised towards Lata ! I felt that the song I heard in ‘hamesa jawan git’ was slightly slower but then previously songs on record and in film sounded different in many songs. For example,Anarkali. Anyway thanks for this wonderful treat and please do not stop !
samir

12 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 6, 2013 at 6:38 pm

My God! Asha Bhosle so much sounds like Geeta Dutt, that even now when we listen the song on a video clip, anything that other character – say Shashikala – sings sounds as if it is Geeta Dutt and that the song is more of duet chorus.

13 gaddeswarup March 7, 2013 at 4:27 am

AK Ji,
I actually listened to the Amirbai version first and was surprised that it was almost matched by the other version. Some seem to prefer the Shamshad version. I think both are excellent, possibly Amirbai puts more passion into it. In the comments section of the link one Pareshdubey said that he had 120 such double songs from the period 1945-1965. Regards,
Swarup

14 gaddeswarup March 7, 2013 at 4:44 am

Talking about putting passion, feeling etc into a song, I find I do not find it many of the famous singer’s songs. They seem to be able to do whatever the music director wants them to do and the success of the song depends on various factors like the tune, situation in the film, success of the film or a dance to go with it. Some seem to have playfulness and some able to put more feeling and passion in a song. On different counts of this type I seem to like Geeta Dutt, Amirbai, Asha Bhosle compared to others. I do not know where to place Saigal. His seem to be like the best parts of a classical musician where they improvise and to consistently to do it must have some thing to do with the person and his/her attitude to music. In Telugu I find Ghantasala did it consistently over a long period until his voice gave in. May be if I know Hindi, I will appreciate the famous singers better. Just thoughts from a lay person to gauge the responses from more knowledgeable people.

15 dustedoff March 7, 2013 at 10:07 am

AK: Yes, I remember I had a long discussion with someone (I think Shalini) on my blog once when I had posted the song and attributed it to Geeta Dutt; Shalini insisted that it was Asha. I think Anu later clarified that apparently even HMV had credited it wrongly to Asha, as you say too. And I agree that Asha does sound a lot like Geeta in that song! An understandable misunderstanding, I think. :-)

Ashokji: If I remember correctly, the film Do Behnen has two versions – happy and sad – of Saiyyan pyaara hai apna milan. Here is the happy one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AaVo_6d0PU

I can’t find an online link to the sad version, unfortunately.

16 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 7, 2013 at 11:29 am

Thanks Mudhuji (Dusted Off.com) for this wonderful song.

I also tried my hand at locating even some audio file of the other version, but did not succeed.

However, the search was not entirely futile, as I landed upon the video clip of ‘Juk Juk Jola Khaye’ which Chand Usmani and her friends have sung while on a boating picnic. Hence, have added it on the relevant post of ‘Songs of Naiya’.

17 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 7, 2013 at 11:30 am

Madhuji, Oof, sorry for misspelling the name.

18 Subodh Agrawal March 7, 2013 at 4:52 pm

Thanks Ashok ji and AK for the short but very sweet post. The mushaira version of ‘Unko yeh shikayat hai’ was new for me. Looking forward to the next instalment.

19 mumbaikar8 March 7, 2013 at 6:48 pm

Thanks Ashokji and AKji for another sweet feature.
The mushaira of Adalat was a pleasant surprise.
As for Abhi to main jawan hoon Latas’s version is haunting , but Malika’s version has kashish , seems that someone not so young is trying to convince others as well as HERSELF and that sounds magical.
I would like to add this Lata song a Happy and sad versions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qfdC6ET0JzM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bdEOoN-9HWM

20 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 7, 2013 at 9:46 pm

@Mumbaikar8 – Thanks for Suno Ki Chhoti SI Gudiya. I had missed collecting it for the next installment. Apart from the melody of the composition, Ustad Ali Akbar’s rendition of Sarod is another high point of this song.
@Subodhji – Thanks. If you are planning a piece on Bhairavi, you may re-look at this song as compared to other SJ songs in Bhairavi, in that whether they had to follow a purer Bhairavi because of Ustad Ali Akbar’s presence in the song!

21 Mahesh Mamadapur March 7, 2013 at 10:15 pm

“Anokha Pyaar” to the best of my knowledge has THREE solo songs sung by Meena Kapoor replaced by Lata. Even a couple of duets of Menna Kapoor with Mukesh were also replaced by Lata.

22 n.venkataraman March 7, 2013 at 11:18 pm

Ashok Vaishnavji,
Thanks for the short and superb article. The selection of songs was also superb.
Among the four versions of the song ‘Abhi To Main Jawan Hun’, the Nazm rendered by Malika Pukhraj slid into my heart. The successive short clear notes and the lyrics created a haunting feeling.
The song ‘Unko ye shikayat hai ki’, is a gem, and you never get tired of repeated listening. The other pair of songs was also good.
Gaddeswarupji has introduced the Amirbai Karantaki’s version of ‘Kahe jadu kiya’. I am hearing it for the first time. I have heard the other version (the original as per AKji) rendered by Shamsad Begum earlier. I am also in the same boat as Gaddeswarup ji as far as understanding the language is concerned. But each of us has our own perceptions regarding feelings, emotions and passions and responding to them.
Intially, Amirbhai Karnataki’s powerful rendering and throw of voice makes a good listening. But a second hearing, you realize that her rendering is a questioning of a demanding lover to her ‘Balam’. There is a tinge of sadness, not pathos. But Shamsad Begum rendering depicts the complaint of an ‘Abhimani Premika’. Her rendring conveys more of pathos and hurt. It seems she posing the question, more to herself. That is my perception.
But both the songs made a good listening.
Thanks once again

23 gaddeswarup March 8, 2013 at 4:08 am

I wonder whether there are different versions of ‘aerial main to prem diwani’. My favorite is Lata Mangeshkar version in Nau Bahar but I think that lyrics are changed from the original Meera song. There is one by Geeta Dutt in Jogan which is very good, I think it follows the original lyrics. Similarly Mat Ja Mat Ja Jogi seems to be sung by several persons though not always in films. I am not sure whether these songs come under the scope of the current discussion.

24 Anu Warrier March 8, 2013 at 5:53 am

Another fine post, Ashokji. Thank you! It was fun listening to the different versions of the songs; one song that I really, really like is a duet from Dillagi (1949).
One version was sung by Shyam and Suraiyya:
http://youtu.be/KoVd7GT_p-I
The other was sung by Shyam and Geeta Dutt.
http://youtu.be/C05k714hsFQ

This is from Sunehre Din – the song, picturised on Rehana, was sung by Surinder Kaur in the film. (It is wrongly credited to Shamshad Begum on this clip.)
http://youtu.be/yLgv54kffUg
Shamshad’s version was the one on the records.

Similarly, there as Dil thandi hawa mein fromShama (1946). This version, sung by Shamshad Begum.
http://youtu.be/WdmVnbCZ1hg
And this one, by Suraiya.
http://youtu.be/Hiu29asB6xo

25 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 8, 2013 at 11:11 am

@gaddeswarup
We shall ceratinly have a very detailed look at different versions of bhajans whether adopted in film song or otherwise, in this series.
I have noted down the present suggestions for further exploratory work. This series can be meaningfully covered only through a collaborative effort. Hence do keep on adding your suggestions, preferably by e-mailing them to Shri AKji, who would then forward the same or even directly to me.

@Anu Warrier –

We shall cover a solo and a duet version in separate post. I would definitely include these gems there, to bring all records on the same page. Thanks.

Thanks, too, for bring in the songs from Shama.

26 gaddeswarup March 8, 2013 at 11:30 am

Thanks. How does one email Shri AK. I would be more comfortable doing that because of my ignorance of Hindi and also my very limited knowledge of Hindi songs. When one was young, songs were all over the place from panchayat board radio, Radio Ceylon and loud speakers at various function. The few I remember are from those days and recently from YouTube and blogs.

27 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 8, 2013 at 11:35 am

@N. Venkataraman
Thanks for expanding on Amirbai Karnataki – Shamshad Begum singing styles.
In so far as knowledge of language and appreciation of music is concerned, people like me fail to understand ( but can only ,implicitly, appreciate) the kind of nuances that people who know music, like you, gadddesawrup, Subodh Agrawal or for that matter, even AKji, and can register, again without (some times really) understanding it only when some one pints out. !

28 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 8, 2013 at 11:38 am

@Mahesh Mamadapur
Thanks for a vital piece of information. Let us if we can hunt out the evdiences!

29 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 8, 2013 at 1:18 pm

Here is additional info for Anokha Pyaar songs :
Yaad Rakhana Chand Taaron –Ankoha Pyaar Meena Kapur – http://youtu.be/P9lLM3BW9ic Lata Mangeshkar – http://youtu.be/2yl8ntNd3VY Mukesh and Lata Mangeshkar – http://youtu.be/0joDoZpSAiA

Jeevan Sapna Tut Gaya – Mukesh – http://youtu.be/ueuK5nEyagw Lata Mangeshkar http://youtu.be/URbwdSgGmho A version by Meena Kapoor is also referred to, but link could not be found.

Ek Dil Lagana Baki Tha – Meena Kapoor – http://youtu.be/yS7gasi2ctY Lata Mangeshkar – http://youtu.be/8mKmxJkVMKI

Ab Yaad Na Kar Lata Mangeshkarm Mukesh – http://youtu.be/cTXYS8_YS2I Meena Kapoor , Mukesh http://youtu.be/rpgj1sHsHIQ

Raaga.com has links to the full Ankha Pyaar album – http://raaga.com/channels/hindi/album/H003338.html

It seems that each of the versions has been painstakingly articulated by Anil Bishwas.

30 n.venkataraman March 8, 2013 at 10:09 pm

Ashok Vaishnav ji,
Fantastic collection. In one of the songs in the Raaga.com I found the name of Ira Nagrath. This singer was new to me and her voice is pleasant.
I did some probing and came to know that she was the wife of music director Roshan. Will like to find out whether YT has any more songs of Ira Nagrath.
I will like to add an end-piece (version) of the song ‘ Yaad rakhna Chand taron” . I will not like to call it another version, but it was repeated at the end of the film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9X8Ucb0uj0
Thanks a lot.

31 arvind March 8, 2013 at 11:17 pm

both the versions are by lata.the lyrics (ek pal ruk jana o jaane wale rahi) are by prem dhawan with anil biswas as the composer.the film -rahi (1952/ 53 ?)-was based on mulk raj anand’s novel “two leaves and a bud” (that is the recommended way to pluck the tea leaves from the plant before processing them further ctc or orthodox,whatever ).the film was directed by k a abbas. famous theatre personality habib tanveer also acted in the film.

http://youtu.be/jgJ2rhoDpQs (happy version )
http://youtu.be/Wmrx18fK-8A (sad version )

32 arvind March 8, 2013 at 11:38 pm

i m sure AK would excuse me for introducing here a sinhalese song sung by rukmani devi .the song follows the tune of the ‘do bhai’ no. ‘mera sunder sapna beet gaya’ (geeta dutt/raja mehdi ali khan/sdb)

http://youtu.be/zaka9-uC0S4 (hindi )

http://youtu.be/44WZaKA2_iU (sinhalese)

33 AK March 9, 2013 at 8:17 am

This is superb. So our categories are growing. But Arvind, you are excused on the condition that you write a guest post in the series: Hindi-Sinhalese-Swahili-miscellaneous languages?

34 jignesh kotadia March 9, 2013 at 10:27 am

Akji…Arvindji…this is more fantastic to listen a familiar tune in an unknown language…Youtube has put us all into musical heaven.

35 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 9, 2013 at 10:57 am

I heartily second AKji… there should a good number of such songs.. waiting to be ‘unearthed’ from the treasure of YT and Net.

36 gaddeswarup March 9, 2013 at 1:25 pm

There may be severa \lfrom Greece
http://www.sangeetmahal.com/journal_hindi_films_greece.asp
Influence of Bollywood in Nigeria is in Brian Larkin’s articles and the book “Signal and Noise”. For the actual links to articles, you can search in my blog for Brian Larkin. I have seen Hindi songs in some Russian films like Sisters by Sergei Bodrov, 2001. This film is available on YouTube and one song comes around one hour. But it is Russian sisters in Indian clothes and bindu dancing to an actual Hindi song. I also remember an Indian type dance in Mongolian street theatre.
There is a recent phenomenon morphing the songs with local language sounds. I read somewhere that Chiranjeevi dance videos and their morphed versions are popular in Taiwan. There is even a name for this but I forgot. It appeared once in an anthropology blog ‘Savage Minds’.
These are just hints for any body who may want to pursue. I am quite happy with listening everyday to a song like ‘aeri maito prem diwani’ from Nau Bahar.

37 gaddeswarup March 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm
38 Arunkumar Deshmukh March 9, 2013 at 6:37 pm

AK Ji,
Here is another Sinhalese song copying Hindi song”Dhitang dhitang boley” from AAWAZ-1956

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ko7nnrVSnbI

39 ASHOK M VAISHNAV March 10, 2013 at 12:56 pm

Here is a song, technically beyond the normal time-line boundary of SoY (No complanits, a mere reiteration of a statement of fact), but since it has a bengali version too, so I thought to bring it up here and enahnce/widen the range of the song by rendered by two different singers :
Jaane Kya Baat Hai – Sunny – R D Burman – Lata Mangeshkar – http://youtu.be/YFXtXvkwXXQ ;
Asha Bhosle’ non-film rendition – http://youtu.be/fu_9_4YiBR8,
and the Bengali version chokhe naam brishti – http://youtu.be/bIQW2BRrO4A

40 AK March 10, 2013 at 6:50 pm

I have been travelling for three days when I could only fleetingly glance through the comments. Now when I am going through them in detail, I find enormous amount of information to chew on, and some incredible ‘new’ songs. So I do not know where to start.

@Gaddeswarup
First a small housekeeping thing. You can send me email to ak@songsofyore.com. The article about the influence of Hindi film songs on Greece was very fascinating. As for morphing, we do come across several Hindi film songs into English or other languages on the YT, but obviously these would not fit into this series. What would figure, as Ashokji mentioned in his overview article in the series, are the traditional compositions, ghazal or classical or bhajan, which have film versions besides non-film versions which are regarded as landmarks. So, Jogi mat ja should come when he comes to that, and without meaning to pre-empt him I would like to add here that I consider Pt Omkarnath Thakur’s rendition as the ultimate in this song. Since his version has become iconic, not far behind would be his disciple, N Rajam’s on the violin.

Your knowledge of music (as also Mr N Venkataraman’s) is awesome, notwithstanding your stated difficulty with Hindi. That makes your self-description as ‘Eternal student’ on your blog highly impressive. A lesson for many of us (including me :)) who at times have an exaggerated notion of our little knowledge.

@Anu Warrier
Anu, Shyam-Geeta Dutt version of Tu mera chand main teri chandni was a revelation. Obviously it was not released on record, as it never came on radio. Even the Hindi Film Geet Kosh does not list it – it seems its scheme is to list the versions issued on records. Or the information may not be available when it was compiled. This also led me to the discovery that the only other song Naushad composed for Geeta Dutt was Mujhe huzoor tumse pyaar hai from Son of India (1962). Before your comment I had taken it for granted that Naushad never composed for Geeta Dutt. However, the fact that these are the only two for her shows that Naushad in his later part became very choosy about his singers unlike the earlier phase (1940s) when he worked with every known singer.

As for Dil thandi hawa mein from Shama (1946), HFGK lists it as a duet with Hamida Bano. You do see two ladies to start with and can decipher two voices, though Shamshad Begum’s voice dominates. This YT link also mentions both the singers’ names:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNqVSAHgDNI

@Arunkumar Deshmukh
Thanks for this addition. Arunji, I think if we search we would get several Sinhalese songs, enough for a post. I am not surprised. A few years back I had visited Sri Lanka. What was most surprising was that they live and breathe Hindi film songs of 1950s and 60s. They are a fun loving and free society, and you would find whole families bring out their guitar or keyboard and sing and dance to our golden oldies without not understanding a word of Hindi.

@N Venkataraman
This style of short end version to end the film I recall had been used in many films. I do not know whether Ashokji plans a post for this type. Some I can instantly recall are Shree 420, Deedar, Teesri Kasam, Street Singer etc. One can see a pattern in these songs – either these are poignant songs of parting, or even union which is full of pathos when the protagonists are shown walking away into the horizon (something like ‘Riding off into the sunset’ of the Westerns?).

41 gaddeswarup March 11, 2013 at 4:45 am

AK Ji,
It seems that we know very little about ourselves, let alone about others. If I had known that I would like Hindi songs, I would have learnt it in school. Even though learning Hindi was popular with earlier generations during the Independence movement, we got into anti-imposition mood and did not learn. The government banning Hindi songs from AIR did not help. But there were Hindi films and songs played at functions or sung by various people in the background. I remember my mother singing Rattan songs. Later I started remembering tunes and sometimes lines I heard and after a while started looking for those songs.I used a Aan tune as a lullaby for my children (Jana gana mana did not work) as well as Pather Panchali tune. I was desperate for ‘aeri maito prem diwani’ but could not find it. Around 1992, I was n Allahabad for a conference and asked folks there. They said that it was a famous Meera tune and got me Jogan songs. When I came back to Melbourne and listened to it, it was not the tune I remembered. The search started again. Around 2000, I was in Bombay and visited Rhythm House to find Aan sons to give to my children since they still remembered the tunes. When I mentioned to a friend who came along about the Meera Bhajan and he said that it may be the Nau Bahar song and I finally got it after 40-50 years. This is how it is going on.

42 Subodh Agrawal March 11, 2013 at 8:42 pm

@gaddeswarup
The article on the influence of Hindi films and their music on Greece is extremely interesting. I found it hard to believe until I located one of the songs mentioned in the article on YT. This one leaves no room for doubt:
http://youtu.be/MCeXPHDg1CA

43 gaddeswarup March 12, 2013 at 4:03 am

I just came across a book “Global Bollywood: Travels of Hindi Song and Dance” edited by Sangita Gopal and Sujata Murti, 2008. A review of the book
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1548-7458.2012.01111.x/pdf
It seems freely downloadable at some sites but I do not know how legal they are.

44 AK March 12, 2013 at 3:12 pm

Gaddeswarupji,
The book is awesome. Thanks a lot.

45 N Venkataraman April 28, 2013 at 5:14 pm

Gaddeswarupji,
Namasakar.

You are genuinely too modest, where as people like me wear the pretension of modesty. I do, silently, follow your postings in other blogs and amazed at the interest and knowledge you possess. I am aware that you were passionately trying to trace this song from Nau Bahar for a long time. If I remember right in one of your posts you had mentioned about getting few medals for singing in your college days. So I presume you must have been a fairly good singer. As regards distinguishing between the voices of Geeta Roy and Asha Bhosle, it happens to me also. I take the help of my wife.

I would like to present here the song you had posted on 22nd May 2012 at mayyam.com. I am not sure whether somebody had mentioned about this earlier in SoY. I am posting this comment here because I felt the song will fit in this category.

Inhi logo ne from Himmat (1941) by Shamsad Begum, lyrics Aziz Kashmiri, music Govind Ram
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=F0QpprJJ1Ig

I also found a male variation of this song uploaded by another veteran Surjit Singhji.
Inhi logo ne from Aabroo (1943) by Yaqub (Surjitji confirms this), music Govind Ram
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtPeoBxALB4

46 gaddeswarup May 1, 2013 at 1:13 pm

Venkataramanji,
It must have been Rajraj. I won some prizes but in studies and basketball.
I have often problem even with songs like the one below. Now I can I think, but not on ipad

Ta thaiya karte ana by Lata Mangeshkar and Geeta Dutt from Panchayat (1958), music Iqbal Qureshi

47 mumbaikar8 March 17, 2014 at 5:29 am

AK,
last week I stumbled upon cover versions of a Shamshad Begum and a Noorjehan song , the songs are too old I could not find any further information about them. Shamshad Begum’s song
Ek tera sahara has Suraiya’s version and Noorjehan’s Kis tarah bhoolenga dil has Zohrabai.
Both the songs are as good as the originals
Noorjehan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=P8m0j59gyZw
Zohrabai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kZI4oeZFYYY
Shamshad Begum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgVbeTwyPe0&feature=player_detailpage
Suraiya
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osGrZHzfVPk&feature=player_detailpage

48 AK March 17, 2014 at 9:08 am

Mumbaikar8,
The two (original) songs are well known:

1. Ek tera sahara by Shamshad Begum from Shama (1946), lyrics Shams Lakhanvi, music Ghulam Haider
2. Kis tarah bhoolega dil by Noorjehan from Village Girl (1945), lyrics Wali Saheb, music Shyam Sunder

I am sorry to say this, but to me, the version songs appear very poor compared to the originals. I like Zohrabai a lot, but her voice is thick, and is a complete contrast from how Kis tarah bhoolega is ingrained in our memory. I like Suraiya a lot, too. She is very melodious. I liked her so much that I did not take much notice of her disclaimer that she hardly knew singing, and it was the great music directors who composed those everlasting songs for her. But in the cover version of Ek tera sahara hai I can see her limitations; she navigates in a very narrow range and does not have the modulation and inflection of Shamshad Begum.

49 mumbaikar8 March 20, 2014 at 10:45 pm

AK,
I want to congratulate you for coming out with honest opinion.
I am doing it today to celebrate the death of a person who did not hesitate to express his opinion of supporting emergency. I truly believe, one does not have to be politically correct to express ones feeling or opinion, tough, only few would agree with me.
I was aware of the original songs but could not get more information about the cover versions.
Comparing the cover versions to the original, I like them because when I compare, I consider the handicap factor, I guess Zohrabai did not have expert MD Shyam Sunder directing and Suraiya was raw then.

50 AK March 21, 2014 at 8:42 am

Mumbaikar8,
Liking music is also a matter of personal choice. I have not found anyone who does not like Lata Mangeshkar’s Shrdhanjali (her tributes to Saigal, Pankaj Mullick, Hemant Kumar, Kishor Kumar and other singers). I can’t stand it. But there are cover versions I like immensely, and at times no less than the original. Here are some – these have all appeared on SoY.

1. Pankaj Maullick’s version of Saigal’s songs in My Sister
2. Nashena’s version of Saigal’s Ae qaatib-e-taqdeer
3. Hemant Kumar’s version of Rafi’s Mohabbat choome jinke haath
4. Amirbai Karnataki’s version of Shamshad Begum’s Kaisa jadoo kiya mujhko itnaa bata jadugar balma
5. Geeta Dutt’s version of Asha Bhosle’s Gore gore hathon mein mehdi racha ke

51 gaddeswarup March 21, 2014 at 9:25 am

AK Ji, Here are both side by side. Zohrabai’s voice did not sound any thicker than Noor Jehan’s to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYtdoR7fYbQ

52 arvindersharma June 4, 2014 at 11:54 pm

AK Ji,
Many a times I have noticed your dislike of Lata’s ‘Shradhanjali’, but this is the first time, I have seen your expression that you have not met anyone who shares your dislike for the same.
Well, now you have company as I myself share similar thoughts.
My Uncles and Father (they are no more now) always used to say this ;
‘Beta, humne to sirf Sehgal ko suna hai aur uske baad bas Lata ko’.
Sehgal for me has no equal.
After listening to him, I will hear no one. His renderings are intoxicating and have no peer in the world of HFM.
Then comes Lata. Her voice till 1954-55 is the ultimate for me. I have a feeling that she lost a sweet note from her voice after that period. She became every MD’s favourite, (but for one, OP) because she had an unparalleled gifted voice.
Coming back to the original topic, I feel that it was a decision based on pure commerce, and a bad one.
My thoughts are purely personal and if they hurt someone, my apologies.
My apologies again for having veered away from the original topic.

53 AK June 5, 2014 at 11:52 pm

Sharmaji,
Then you must also have noticed that I am an inveterate fan of Lata Mangeshkar, and I am also quite open that I am not a great fan of Geeta Dutt and Asha Bhosle. I am happy that there is someone with me on ‘Shradhanjali’. I don’t think it was bad commerce, I understand they made a lot of money on that. That also means that those of us who didn’t like it (I could not stand it) are in a minority.

54 arvindersharma June 6, 2014 at 11:56 am

AK Ji,
On Lata, I share similar thoughts with you, (prefer to remain in minority than to falsely appreciate something which I can’t stand) but I beg to differ on Geeta Dutt and Asha Bhonsle, not to forget OPN, about whom you have a certain apathy because of Lata.
But we will agree to disagree.

Ashok Vaishnav Ji,
sorry to have barged into your space and motivated AK Ji as well.

A commendable article once again. ‘Abhi to mai jawan noon’ by Lata was something special. It had a kind of sad eerie feeling that can only be felt and not described.

‘Adalat’ was also a revelation. Heard it for the first time. Its time for payback, hence my
humble contribution, a very famous Ghazal ;
Ye Na this hamari qismat, ke visaal e yaar hota, penned by Mirza Ghalib,
sung by Suraiya in ‘Mirza Ghalib’, music by Ghulam Mohammad and
by Usha Mangeshkar in ‘Main Nashe Me Hoon’, music by Shankar Jaikishan.
(My only dislike being the pronunciation of the word ‘Qismat’ by Usha Mangeshkar. You could never fault Lata on this count).

55 ASHOK M VAISHNAV June 6, 2014 at 1:44 pm

#arvindersharma

This is a journey where more are indeed merrier.

I have noted and reserved Ye Na Thi Hamar Qismat for future article of Ghazals of Noted Shayars in Films and multiple non-film versions thereof.

56 mumbaikar8 June 8, 2014 at 6:12 am

Sharma ji,
You have mentioned how wrong pronunciation turns into dislike, I totally agree with you, Either Usha Mangeshkar does not have huge fan following or the SOY family has become more accepting, I had said the same thing about Mukesh, it had created a great furor, I have no disrespect for Mukesh, he has sung many immortal songs, I like him a lot but my statement was no misconception You have talked with example, I will give Mukesh’s example too.
The iconic song woh subha kabhi to ayengi I have not come across anyone who does not like this song
गौर कीजिए कैसे कबि instead of कभी ने song का ज़ायका ख़राब किया है until Asha starts emphatically with कभी, all over the song wherever there is भी he has pronounced बी. I hold MD Khayyam responsible for it too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hQYQUo5X6F0

One more very popular song Chandan sa badan from Sarawati Chandra
पुरे गाने मे मैं की जगह में कहा हैं.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpKeOnowgPs&feature=player_embedded

57 arvindersharma June 8, 2014 at 3:24 pm

Mumbaikar8,
I always read your posts with interest and have just now gone through the article ‘Mukesh for SDB’, where this controversy about Mukesh arose.
I have also noted that Sh. Arunkumar Deshmukh and AK Ji have tried to arbitrate the issue in a very mature and statatesmanlike manner, which should have put an end to any further discussions.
But you have addressed me in this post, so I will share my views with you.

By pointing out Usha’s Urdu mispronunciation and with a reference to Lata, I was meaning to point out the hard work Lata had put in for her success.

A very famous star once reportedly said, ‘Lata ke munh se daal bhaat ki boo aati hai’ (perhaps her lack of Urdu finery, which was a natural part of cultural heritage belonging to the film people descending from north).
But Lata took this very seriously and engaged Urdu tutors, so that she never had to look back on this count.
Lata to me, looks like made of a sterner stuff and if the story is true, the said star must have eaten out of Lata’s hands in the later years.

Coming back to Mukesh, I will not colour my opinion only on the basis of his faulty pronunciation, though I do agree with you that mispronunciation irks a serious listener and the lyricist or the MDs should have taken care.

Lastly, I have no doubts about the fact that Mukesh was another gift of God to HFM, and a humane soul as well, and as such, even if we take this ‘Muqaddama’ to Rajat Sharma’s ‘Aap Ki Adalat’, Mukesh would win hands down.

Ashok Vaishnav Ji,
once again my apologies for barging in to your territory.

58 mumbaikar8 June 8, 2014 at 5:31 pm

Sharma ji
I guess, I have done once it once again. I try to add some subtle spice and humour and if I forget to add a smiley I mess it up.

In no way I was complaining about AK or SOY family, in fact he was more than gracious in dealing the matter.
AK even understands my subtleness, I guess even if he does not understand he just ignores it as one of my silliness:)

Back to business, talking about the great Lata, one of the many reasons why Lata became GREAT was that, she took criticism as challenge and worked hard over it. I have watched the interview you are talking about, in fact in most of her interviews, whenever she talks about her old days she refers to this incident, as far as I can remember the actor had not said, Lata ke muh se , I assume he had not heard her sing, he had said that Maharashtrain singer ke gane se dal bhat ki boo aati hai, later on he took the credit of motivating her, he is her rakhi brother.

Mukesh is a great gift to HFM, he is one of the top three, scoring over Mannay Dey and Talat, we do not have to go any adalat (specially aap ki adalat where questions are framed for answers and not vice versa) to substantiate that, my bottom line is what is good for goose is good for gander, if it is true for Usha it should be true for Mukesh or for that matter any singer.

59 arvindersharma June 8, 2014 at 6:11 pm

Mumbaikar8,
referring to ‘Aap Ki Adalat’ was simply a spur of the moment comment and referred to in pure jest. I was myself trying to add some ‘spice and jest’, which I think you took a bit seriously.

It takes time for people to understand each other and I loved the way you described AK Ji understanding you and hope that in future, you will also be able to perceive my dosage of humour, as and when the opportunity arrives.

You are absolutely right on the pronunciation factor, one should not make a distinction between anyone on the basis of success, but I think we all agree that Mukesh, inspite of his mild shortcomings, was a great singer.

Ashok Vaishnav Ji will excuse us once again, I hope.

60 AK June 9, 2014 at 7:17 pm

Mumbaikar8, Sharmaji
I have been following your conversation with interest, in which my name also figures in some very gracious terms. Thanks for that. But Mumabikar8, it seems that episode still rankles you. I thought it was very clear that on SoY I welcome all views, contrarian views may be expressed strongly, and at times with some spice of humour. It would be sad if someone has to add a smiley as a safety measure. I believe we are intelligent enough to accept some irreverent humour targeted against our heroes. My only boundary condition was: No aspersion against a reader for her views.

But I didn’t join in to labour this point. I wanted to say that the examples you have cited – Usha Mangeshkar’s ‘kismat’, and Mukesh’s कबी and में – I would not have noticed, and even after knowing it, it is not jarring to my ears. There are many reasons for that, the least important is one’s liking for the singer.

One is the difference between sensory perception of different persons. There is also the larger issue about Hindi-Urdu-language-script debate. I would try to skirt the emotive politics behind it. One view arose that the best way to promote Urdu was to write it in Devnagari. It is a fact that most popular Urdu literature (for example, Javed Akhtar’s Tarkash) is sold many times more in Devnagari than in Urdu. Unfortunately, a parallel movement arose in Hindi, in the name of simplification of typescript, to do away with the nuqta in Urdu words. The idea was that the reader would make the correction while pronouncing it. But how would the newer generation know the correct pronunciation? Therefore, while some obvious words, such as ‘zameen’, ‘zinda’ have survived, many words have become a victim. ‘Kismat’ is one obvious case, ‘kalam’, ‘garib’ and many such words can be cited. Have you noticed that Bollywood, which is more aware about Urdu, almost always writes ‘Kismat’ if it figures in a film’s title? Given this convention, I also routinely write ‘Kismat’ on my blog.

This is another one on which probably we have to agree to disagree. I liked the Usha Mangeshkar’s Ye na thi hamari kismat, its mood accompanied by the dance is complete contrast from Suraiya’s sombre version. I heard it for the first time. Thank you, Sharmaji.

61 arvindersharma June 10, 2014 at 12:26 am

AK ji,Mumbaikar8,
Let’s end the discussion on this topic with a duet by Mukesh and Usha Mangeshkar.
Ashok Vaishnav Ji,
Another barge in by me in your territory, for which I hope you will pardon me.
My first attempt at posting a song, in case it fails, AK Ji please take care.
Khuli khuli zulfon ko baandh bhi lo by Mukesh & Usha Mangeshkar in Banarsi Thug, music by Iqbal Qureshi: http://youtu.be/86yxZ35Rxps

62 mumbaikar8 June 10, 2014 at 2:19 am

Sharma Ji,
Congratulations you are successful in you first attempt!
I like the way have ended the discussion.
AK,
I am not at all proud, that I have yet again created a situation where you felt compelled to intervene but I am very proud of being an active member of your blog, that in true sense practice opportunity to all and appeasement to none.
I think I am guilty of, not being able to put forth my opinion without sounding judgmental.
There is no disagreement with me I like Usha Mangeshkar’s Yeh na thi hamari kismat as much as I like Woh subha Kabi to ayengi:)
I will end this, with the awesome Mukesh Lata duet from Jalti Nishani which I heard for the very first time today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc9GueI8JhE&feature=player_detailpage

63 arvindersharma June 10, 2014 at 8:05 am

AK Ji, Mumbaikar8,
And in the end, music is the winner. It gives me immense pleasure to see that mumbaikar8 selected the same song, (please read my comments dated 6th April, ’14, in Mukesh’s best happy duets) which I had recommended on my second visit to your blog.
It can’t more joyous than this.

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