Best songs of 1949: Wrap Up 4

November 20, 2016

And the SoY Award for the Best Duet goes to?

Ae mohabbat unse milneIt is always a pleasure to write the Wrap Up 4, which is for the best duets of the year. The best solos always generate some  controversy. In male solos this year, there was a close tie between Rafi and Mukesh. My conclusion that Mukesh was the No.1 singer of the year left many readers dissatisfied.  Lata Mangeshkar versus ‘other’ singers can never be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction. Even in a year in which it was acknowledged that Lata Mangeshkar came as a tsunami, there was a dissenting voice. The duets, however, present a less contentious scenario. Here the ‘others’ come in full force; their combination with the leading male singers, such as Rafi and Mukesh, creates a kaleidoscope of colours. Shamshad Begum sheds off the challenge of Lata Mangeshkar when it comes to duets. Suraiya is always supremely melodious. Surinder Kaur, who is a legend in Punjab, gives some wonderful duets, besides solos which we have seen in Wrap Up 2. In female-female duets, we get some niche vintage voices. But the main charm is that we also get duets in which none of the familiar voices are there, and they are as delightful as any by the leading singers.

In my overview post on the best songs of 1949, there were 55 duets which is 2.5 times of the male solos, but about 70% female solos. I have come across a study by Greg Booth of statistical distribution of film songs over the years in various categories. As a rough approximation we can say that female solos account for about 50% of the total songs composed, male solos about 15%, and duets and other songs about 35%. What conclusions can be drawn from this data is a matter for a separate study. For the present, we can say that duets occupy a very important place in film music.

The 55 duets include 8 female-female duets, as well as male-male and songs by three or more singers. Considering from male singers’ perspective, Rafi accounts for the largest – 17 duets – followed by Mukesh with 10 duets. If you look at it from female singers’ perspective, Lata Mangeshkar and Shamshad Begum are frontrunners in the pack by a big margin, their voice appearing in at least two-thirds of the songs, with Lata Mangeshkar having a slight edge. As I go down the list of Memorable Songs in my overview post, it is almost an impossible task to select the best ten. Let me start by my standard exercise of choosing the unmissable songs in the first cut, in the order they appear in the list.

FIRST CUT

Badi Bahan: Husnlal-Bhagatram
1. Chup chup khade ho zaroor koi baat hai – Premlata and Lata Mangeshkar
Barsaat: Shankar-Jaikishan
2. Chhod gaye baalam mujhe haye akela chhod gaye – Mukesh and Lata Mangeshkar
Bazaar: Shyam Sundar
3. Chhalla de ja nishani – Shamshad Begum, Rafi and SD Batish
4. Ae mohabbat unse milne ka bahana ban gaya – Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar
Chandni Raat: Naushad
5. Chheen ke dil kyun pher li aankhen – Rafi and Shamshad Begum
6. Sainya se bichhad gayi haye more Ram – Amirbai Karnataki and Sadat Khan
Dada: Nashad
7. Tera kisi se pyar tha tu wo zamana bhool ja – Mukesh and Surinder Kaur
Dillagi: Naushad
8. Meri pyari patang chali – Uma Devi and Shamshad Begum
9. Tu mera chaand main teri chandni – Shyam and Suraiya
10. Zalim zamana mujhko tumse chhuda raha hai – Shyam and Suraiya
Dulari: Naushad
11. Raat rangili mast nazaare – Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar
Ek Thi Ladki: Vinod
12. Lara lappa lara lappa – Lata Mangehskar, Rafi and Durrani
13. Ab haal-e-dil ya haal-e-jigar kuchh na poochhiye – Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar
Jal Tarang: Husnlal-Bhagatram
14. Zara tumne dekha to pyar aa gaya – Rafi and Lata mangeshkar
Kaneez: Ghulam Haider
15.Tum kya jaano mere maathe ki bindiya ka mol – GM Durrani and Shamshad Begum
Lahore: Shyam Sundar
16. Duniya hamare pyar ki yun hi jawan rahe – Karan Dewan and Lata Mangeshkar
Lekh: Krishna Dayal
17. Badra ki chhaon tale – Mukesh and Suraiya
Mahal: Khemchand Prakash
18. Chun chun ghungharwa baje..Ye raat phir na ayegi – Zohrabai Ambalewali and Rajkumari
Neki Aur Badi: Roshan
19. Kyonji scent lagaya hai – Firoz Dastur and Amirbai Karnataki
Paras: Ghulam Mohammad
20. Dil le ke chhupnewale – Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar
Patanga: C Ramchandra
21. Mere piya gaye Rangoon – Chitalkar and Shamshad Begum
22. O dilwalo dil ka lagana achchha hai par kabhi kabhi – Chitalkar and Shamshad Begum
Shair: Ghulam Mohammad
23. Ye duniya hai – Mukesh and Lata Mangeshkar
Sunehere Din: Gyan Dutt
24. Maine dekhi jag ki reet – Mukesh and Shamshad Begum

Before I come to further elimination, let me discuss the songs mentioned by the readers beyond my list. SSW has added a very interesting conversational duet between Rafi and Surinder Kaur, Tum ho jaao hamare hum ho jayein tumhare from Rooplekha (1949), composed by ‘Sajjad Husain’. There is a small matter of detail, however, which needs confirmation. I find that Khan Mastana and Nisar Bazmi have been credited as the music directors for this film. Sajjad Husain was probably not at all associated with this film. SSW also added another very nice duet, Ye bhi hai koi reet, by KS Ragi and Uma Devi from Hamari Kismet, composed by Nisar Bazmi. SSW’s additions are off-beat, but they grow on you with repeated listening.

Among the mainstream songs added by the readers was Ae aankh ab na rona by Chitalkar and Lata Mangeshkar from Sipahiya (added by DP Rangan). An interesting addition was by Venkataramanji – Ye shokh sitaare ik shokh nazar ki tarah by Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar from Ek Thi Ladki. He would like to put it in the top ten, though it did not figure in my main list. Another Rafi-Lata duet from the film – Ab haal-e-dil ya haal-e-jigar – is my great favourite, which I had included in the list.

I have to make a special mention of Mahesh and Ashokji for bringing to my notice an absolutely gorgeous song which deserves a special place among the duets of 1949 – Ae ishq humein barbaad na kar – by Rafi and Suraiya from Naach. I had included the more familiar duet by the same pair from NaachChhaya sama suhana. But if I have to choose one, I would any day choose Ae ishq humein barbaad na kar. Ashokji deserves special mention for another reason.  As I had mentioned in my earlier reviews, based on my overview post he has undertaken massive micro-analysis under various categories, including many more songs than my shortlist.  He has compiled all that in four separate pdf articles category-wise, with YouTube URL link of those songs.  This is a valuable reference material. If you are interested, please send me a mail to ak@songsofyore.com. He has also been doing a final meta-compilation, and I am sure he would do this year too, after the Final Wrap Up, in one pdf article of all the five categories.

Several readers have given their choice for the best, or a list of their best – sometimes without order. Arunji is always sure of his choice. His best is Lara lappa. He also gives an alternative in case it is not treated as a duet – Chup chup khade ho. For a long time I regarded Lara lappa as a Lata Mangeshkar solo until I became aware that it also had the voices of Rafi and GM Durrani. Gaddeswarupji has chosen Kyonji scent lagaya hai by Firoz Dastur and Amirbai Karnataki as the best MF and Pyar ke jahan ki nirali sarkar hai by Lata Mngeshkar and Shamshad Begum as FF duet. KS Bhatiaji has given a list of seven songs headed by Chup chup khade ho. Shalan Lal has listed five songs. However, the first song in her list Nigahein milaane ko ji chahta hai is a Twin song by Paro Devi/Satish singing separate solo versions. Thus, the top song in her list is Ae mohbbat unse milne ka bahana ban gaya. Siddharth observes that ‘Best Duets’ is the most competitive category and he has given a list of 12 MF duets, topped by Maine dekhi jag ki reet, followed by Ae mohabbat unse milne ka bahan ban gaya. He has given a list of six ‘Other Duets’ too (MM, FF, Multiple), headed by Chup chup khade ho zaroor koi baat hai.

Given the riches in the year, I realise I should have split it in two parts – MF duets and others. But let me do the difficult part of making a combined list of best ten. Chup chup khade ho makes a sure shot entry, so is Lara lappa – for their iconic place in the history of film music. If I choose two duets of Rafi, they should be Ae mohabbat unse milne ka bahana ban gaya and Chheen ke dil kyun pher li aankhen. Choosing Mukesh’s two is even a more difficult task. One can’t do without Chhod gaye baalam and Ye duniya hai yahan dil ka lagana kisko ata hai. That makes six, after severe rationing of Rafi and Mukesh duets. But 1949 is special because of its myriad flavours by other singers. Can one afford to exclude Tu mera chhand main teri chaandini and Duniya hamare pyar ki yun hi jawan rahe? That leaves room for only two. Sainya se bichhad gayi ho more Ram is my great favourite, and Venkaramanji has made a special request for it. For the last slot, I can toss from at least ten songs, each surpassing the other. Let me choose another iconic song which also adds to the variety – Mere piya gaye Rangoon.

Special songs

Earlier I had ‘Special songs’ only in the main post. In 1949, I find I have to have special songs in each category. And the reasons would be obvious once you see the songs. Mahesh rightly said the year 1949 itself is the biggest winner of all.

1. Kyonji scent lagaya hai by Firoz Dastur and Amirbai Karnataki from Neki Aur Badi, lyrics Kidar Sharma, music Roshan

I had posted five duets, including this one, as ‘Special Songs’ in the overview post. Gaddeswarupji declares this as the best duet of the year. Had it been only a question of my taste, I would have agreed with him. Firoz Dastur is mentioned with great respect as one of the three most eminent disciples of Sawai Gandharva, along with Bhimsen Joshi and Gangubai Hangal, who were the leading exponents of Ustad Abdul Karim Khan’s branch of Kirana gharana. Kyonji scent lagaya hai is my great favourite. I am very pleased to repeat it as a special song.

2. Seene mein aag bhadakati hai…Ae ishq humein barbaad na kar by Rafi and Suraiya from Naach, lyrics Sarshr Sailani, music Husnlal-Bhagatram

This is a song you can hear hundreds of times without tiring. The song starts with a beautiful recital of a couplet in Suraiya’s voice:

सीने में आग भड़कती है आंखों से पानी बहता है
कुछ ऐसी चोट लगी दिल पर दिल रो रो के ये कहता है

HB have composed some more famous songs in Suraiya’s voice in slow recital style. A prime example is Likhanewale ne, where the antaras are made of couplet recitals, leading to the fast-paced mukhada. Rafi is the unchallenged master of recital-style songs with minimal instrumentation.

Putting this song in resulted in an unexpected bonus as YT showed up the same ghazal sung by a Pakistani singer Nayyara Noor. The lyricist shown is Akhtar Shirani, which is very different from Sarshar Sailani. Except the mukhada and the basic tune, the Pakistani ghazal is very different. A worthy addition to Ashokji’s list of multiple version songs, and a beautiful song in its own right.

3. Ye shokh sitaare ik shokh nazar ki tarah by Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar from Ek Thi Ladki, lyrics Aziz Kashmiri, music Vinod

This soft, slow-paced romantic song requires a patient listening. The other duet Ab haal-e-dil ya haal-e-jigar, which was in my main list, appeals instantly. But since Venkataramanji would put it in the best ten, let me put it in the category of ‘Special Songs’.

4. Sun lo dil ka afsana ho by Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar from Andaaz (unreleased song), lyrics Majroh Sultanpuri, music Naushad

We saw in Wrap Up1 on the best male solos that Andaz also had an unreleased outstanding Mukesh solo, Sunaaun kya main gham apna. Here is a great Rafi-Lata Mangeshkar duet – according to me, much better than Yun to aapas mein bichhadate hain which was included in the film.

Best duets

1. Chup chup khade ho zaroor koi baat hai by Lata Mangeshkar and Premlata, lyrics Rajendra Krishna, music Husnlal-Bhagatram

This song is unique in many respects. In a group of travelling singers, the harmonium is generally carried by a male. This is an all-woman song. The harmonium prelude and interludes were never used more charmingly. It is one of the best songs in the category of songs picturised on minor actors, witnessed by the lead actors.

2. Ye duniya hai yahan dil ka lagana kisko ata hai by Mukesh and Lata Mangeshkar from Shair, lyrics Shakeel Badayuni, music Ghulam Mohammad

Ghulam Mohammad is an amazing talent. Here he gives of of the greatest long distance duets of separation to match the best of Naushad. Mukesh sings for all the big three in the year.

3. Ae mohabbat unse milne ka bahana ban gaya by Rafi and Lata Mangeshkar from Bazaar, lyrics Qamar Jalalabadi, music Shyam Sunder

Long back when I did a list of the best Rafi-Lata Mangeshkar duets, I had put Ae mohabbat unse milne ka bahana ban gaya at the top of the list. This film had Lata Mangeshkar’s iconic solo Sajan ki galiyan chhod chale, and a contrasting fast-paced, Punjabi folk-style triad song Chhalla de ja nishani teri meharbani by Shamshad Begum, Rafi and Satish Batra.

4. Chhod gaye baalam mujhe haye akela chhod gaye by Mukesh and Lata Mangeshkar from Barsaat, lyrics Hasrat Jaipuri, music Shankar-Jaikishan

In their debut film, SJ create one of the best long distance duets of separation.

5. Tu mera chaand main teri chaandni by Shyam Kumar and Suraiya from Dillagi, lyrics Shakeel Badayuni, music Naushad

In one of the eternal confusions, here the villain in the film, Shyam Kumar, gives playback for the hero Shyam, with Suraiya dancing and singing for herself. From long distance duets of separation, we come to a joyous duet of union, though the film would have its share of separation and sad songs later in the film.

6. Chheen ke dil kyun pher li ankhen by Rafi and Shamshad Begum from Chandni Rat, lyrics Shakeel Badayuni, music Naushad

This film had another superb Rafi-Shamshad Begum duet, Kaise baje dil ka sitar. This shows how tough the competition was for duets in the year.

7. Sainya se bichhad gayi haye more Ram by Saadat Khan and Amirbai Karnataki from Chandni Raat, lyrics Shakeel Badayuni, music Naushad

Saadat Khan is a virtually unknown name in film music. He gave music in films like Bhatakati Maina (1947), Behram Daku (1959) and Arab Ka Sitara (1961) in which he composed some very good qawwalis and also sang in them. This duet in Chandni Raat is delightful, with Shamshad Begum’s full-throated voice a nice counterpoise to Saadat Khan’s melodious rendering. My absolute favourite, and especially requested by Venkataramanji.

8. Lara lappa lara lappa by Lata Mangeshkar, Rafi and GM Durrani from Ek Thi Ladki, lyrics Aziz Kashmiri, music Vinod

In spite of words like Lara lappa and addi tappa, which must have been meaningless for non-Punjabis, this song had a timeless appeal. The high-spirited Meena Sheroy explains to his bewildered boss the meaning of these words before breaking into the song. The infectious tune draws in her other colleagues who join in the chorus. An interesting insight into an office dynamic where the subordinates feel unity among themselves behind the back of the boss.

9. Duniya hamaare pyar ki yun hi jawan rahe by Karan Dewan and Lata Mangeshkar from Lahore, lyrics Rajendra Krishna, music Shyam Sundar

Karan Dewan, though not a great singer, has sung some songs for himself. It was to the credit of the composers that they created many memorable songs in his voice. One of the most beautiful romantic duets.

10. Mere piya gaye Rangoon by Chitalkar and Shamshad Begum from Patanga, lyrics Rajendra Krishna, music C Ramchandra

C Ramchandra was the master composer for romantic comedies. In this laugh-riot, he lends his voice for Gope, Shashad Begum singing for Nigar Sultana for a stage dance song, which has acquired an iconic status.

{ 55 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Ashok M Vaishnav November 20, 2016 at 8:04 am

Duets this year gave even a far more difficult job of selecting the best ones, since other than the ones by the most-frequented-singers, other combinations have also quite a sizable presence. Add FF duets and the job of selection becomes far more complex.
Congratulations for having done a fairly balanced and yet quite an inclusive analysis in making the FINAL choice.
Here is mine:

I always have had a special inclination towards the duet songs. 1949 is the year which had a fairly large catch of the duets to listen to and quite a few have been in the all-time favorites of not only my choice but probably of all listeners in general as well.
For reasons obvious, I have been generous in presenting My Top choice duets.
Male – Female Duets
It is no surprise that Male Female duets dominate the overall choice among variants of the duets. However, the domination of duets of Mohammad Rafi and Mukesh is my limitation of taste and choice. In other words, these are the songs that I have been listening to far more frequently than the others. So my choice does reflect that bias.

Mohammad Rafi + Lata Mangeshkar – Yun To Aapas Mein Bigadate Hain, Khafa Hote Hain – Andaz – Naushad – Majrooh Sultanpuri

Mohammad Rafi + Lata Mangeshkar – Mil Mil Ke Gayenge Ho Ho Dil Yahan – Dulari – Naushad – Sakeel Badayuni

Mohammad Rafi + Lata Mangeshkar – Jara Tumne Dekha To Pyaar Aa Gaya – Jaltarag – Husnlal Bhagatram – Kaif Irfani

Mohammad Rafi + Lata Mangeshkar – Sajan Ki Oat Le Ke, Hathon Mein Hath De Ke – Zevrat – Hansraj Behl – Habib Sarhadi

Mohammad Rafi + Lata Mangeshkar – Aye Dil Na Mujhe Yaad Dila, Baaten Purani – Sawan Aya Re – Khemchand Prakash – Bharat Vyas

Mukesh + Lata Mangeshkar – Chhod Gaye Balam Mujhe Haye Akela Chhd Gaye – Barsaat – Shanker Jaikishan – Hasrat Jaipuri

Mukesh + Lata Mangeshkar – Yeh Duniya Hai…. Yahan Dil Ka Lagana Kisko Aata Hai – Shair – Ghulam Mohammad – Shakeel Badayuni

Mukesh + Shamshad Begum -Tu Mahalo Mein Rahanewali, Main Kutiya Mein Rahanewala – Shabnam – S D Burman – Qamar Jalalabadi

Mukesh + Shamshad Begum – Maine Dekhi Jag Ki Reet, Sab Jhuthe Ho Gaye – Sunehare Din – Gyan Dutt – D N Madhok

Mukesh + Suraiya – Badra Ki Chhaon Tale Nanhi Nanhi Bundiya – Lekh – Krishna Dayal – Raghupat Roy

Mukesh + Geeta Roy – Kismat Mein Bichchadana Tha, Hui Kyon Unse Mulaqaat Re – Shabnam – S D Burman – Qamar Jalaabadi

Chitalkar + Shamshad Begum – Mere Piya Gaye Rangoon Kiya Hai Wahan Se Telephoon – Patanga – C Ramchandra – Rajendra Krishna

Karan Diwan + Lata Mangeshkar – Duniya Hamare Pyaar Ki Yuhin Jawan Rahe, Main Bhi Wahan Rahun Jahan Sajan Mera Rahe – Lahore – ShyamSundar – Rajendra Krishna

Shyam + Suraiya – Tu Mera Chand Main Teri Chandani, Main Tera Raag Tu Meri Raagini – Dillagi– Naushad – Shakeel Badayuni

Shankar Dasgupta + Suraiya – Chahe Kitani Kathin Dagar Ho, Hum Kadam Badhayenge Jaayenge – Jeet – Anil Bishwas – Prem Dhawan
Other Duets

The Female Female duets and the solitary triad + song are more or less automatic choices, at least by application of their overall populariover all these years.
Lata Mangeshkar + Shamshad Begum – Dar Na Mohabbat Kar Le – Andaz – Naushad – Majrooh Sultanpuri

Lata Mangeshkar + Premlata – Chup Chup Khade Ho Zaroor Koi Baat Hai – Badi Behan – Husnlal Bhagatram – Qamar Jalalabadi

Johrabai Ambalewali + Rajkumari – Choon Chhoon Ghunghariya Baje, Ye Raat Phir Na Aayegi, Jawani Beet Jayegi – Mahal– Khemchand Prakash – Nakshab Jarachavi

Mohammad Rafi, G M Durrani, Lata Mangeshkar – Lara Lappa Lara Lappa Lai Rakhava- Ek Thi Ladki –– Vinod – Aziz Kashmiri

The choice of selecting The Best from these has worked out to be more difficult than I had imagined. So I propose a work around solution. I have picked up one duet each from those of Mohammad Rafi, Mukesh and from the others.
Mohammad Rafi + Lata Mangeshkar – Jara Tumne Dekha To Pyaar Aa Gaya – Jaltarag – Husnlal Bhagatram – Kaif Irfani

Mukesh + Shamshad Begum – Maine Dekhi Jag Ki Reet, Sab Jhuthe Ho Gaye – Sunehare Din – Gyan Dutt – D N Madhok

Karan Diwan + Lata Mangeshkar – Duniya Hamare Pyaar Ki Yuhin Jawan Rahe, Main Bhi Wahan Rahun Jahan Sajan Mera Rahe – Lahore – Shyam Sundar – Rajendra Krishna

2 Shalan Lal November 20, 2016 at 2:12 pm

I enjoy the wrap up 4 of 1949 duets. I shall read again.

In my first reading I agree with all the songs and so much deliberation has done by AK before expressing his introduction.

However I would not have chosen the song number 5 “Tu mera chaand main teri chaandni by Shyam Kumar and Suraiya ” though Suraiya was very good friend of min.

“Tu Mera” is a very simple song and Naushad has not done any hard work for it. The sound of “Murali” is sweet. He has not given much challenching craft for the voice of Suraiya. It is elementally plain without embelishment. Could be drab.

From the same film I would have kept the song “Meri Pyari Patang”, as it had very good Katahk steps of girls dancing with a flying kite. Wonderful.

But the rest of the labour of short listing of 24 songs is a mountainous task and I am grateful for this swate man!

Shalan Lal

3 AK November 20, 2016 at 2:28 pm

Shalan,
Thanks a lot for your appreciation.

I see your point, but isn’t ‘Awara hun’ or ‘Mera joota hai Japani’ simple tunes? The test should be does the song give you joy (not in the cheap sense). Even in classical music, those who gave aesthetic pleasure became great, and not those who were technical wizards. Even Ustad Abdul Karim Khan was known to stray from raag purity, because he would be in a trance in the beauty of what he was singing.

The idea is not to question you, but only presenting a viewpoint. But I don’t mind because your alternative is ‘Meri pyari patang’, my great favourite.

4 ksbhatia November 20, 2016 at 6:19 pm

AK ji;

Thanks for the fantastic duet songs on our 39 th marriage anniversary . My wife is as happy as I am .The selected songs are in line of a perfectionist choice listener . The added list provided by Ashok M Vaishnav is also a vision of a sharp listener . Thanks for that.

Like Ms. Shalan I too wish that the unique duet of Barsaat ….patli qamar hai teerchhi nazar hai ……should have found its place in the main listing or atleast should have mentioned in special songs . The song is unique because of its lyrics . It in fact is a beautiful combo of happy and sad’ twin ‘in one song , very well composed and beautifully written …..tum bin naino ki barsaatein rok na paun lakh manaoun….main behte dariya ka paani kayi kinaroan ko lejaon ,ruk na paoun . Simply superb .

5 AK November 21, 2016 at 12:23 am

KS Bhatiaji,
I am happy that you and Mrs Bhatia enjoyed it. I agree Patli kamar hai should have been mentioned as a special song for happy-sad combination.

6 KB November 21, 2016 at 9:08 am

Very good selection. Happy to know that great songs from BARSAAT,EK THI LADKI,LAHORE and SHAIR are included.

7 N Venkataraman November 21, 2016 at 10:05 am

Akji,
As usual you have done a competent job of making the final list. It was a sheer pleasure to listen these melodious duets once again. I am glad to find two of my favourite duets, “Ye shokh sitaare ik shokh nazar ki tarah” and “Sainya se bichhad gayi haye more Ram” in your special list and main list respectively, at the same time, disappointed not to find the delightful song “Meri Pyari Patang”. On the whole, a good and well balanced wrap-up.

8 AK November 21, 2016 at 11:29 am

KB, Venkataramanji,
Thanks a lot for your appreciation. Some outstanding songs are bound to be left out in a situation of plenty. Meri pyari patang is also my great favourite. Let us hope it appears on SoY in some other context.

9 Shalan Lal November 21, 2016 at 11:29 am

AK @ 3

Yes I see your point. There are areas of “Tu Mera” that have some good points like Suraiya trying to dance. She was young then and as we do not see faults when little girls dance. But she was in love with Shyam and the zany situation that the actor Shym Kumar wrote the lyric. So these are interesting points.

But as KSB has pointed the Barasaat duet song “Patali Kamar” is far too superior in the lyric, tunes and the way it was shot. Here RK could be the first one who broke away and showed how to make movement in the duet songs which were ususally sationary situation. The classic claustrophobic situation song is “Yayhan Badala” from “Jugnu” sung by Rfi and Noorjehan.

I must praise KSB for his very clever way of seeing the old films and bringing out what we missed out in our ususal seeing a film.

Shalan La

10 D P Rangan November 21, 2016 at 3:55 pm

A precise and clinical post by erudite AK and once again he has set the ball rolling, but not in a manner which led to the war between Greek and Troy over Helen. There would be suggestions galore and in the process more obscure songs will see the light of day.

I was saddened to see that song No. 10 has been taken down by U Tube. I am giving below three links for a live presentation of this Patanga song for AK to choose and substitute.

https://youtu.be/mO3s9QZtZc4
https://youtu.be/GCP8HnRpHXg
https://youtu.be/cbErQRZZNKY

11 ksbhatia November 21, 2016 at 6:46 pm

Ms. Shalan Lal @9 , AK ji ;

Thanks a lot for your kind words . I must say, like all others , I have learnt a lot from the company of very learned people of SoY group . Meeting them in person is a great experience .

Thanks goes to AK ji for the horizon he has set to explore music thru cinematic treatment …..from Mirage of desert to rainbow over clouds .

A K ji , Listening to the melodious duet song….chheen ke dil kyun pher li aankhen….from Chandni Raat is like eating to a superbly layered club sandwich which I like to order whenever I am at a joint of my fav. outlet . If one listen to the song with sharp ears , he or she , would recognise the various tunes or songs of Naushad which were yet to come . Some may or may not agree but I find tunes of at least five songs layerd as sandwich in this song……

bachhpan ke din bhula na dena…..Deedar

dil tera hai deewana……Babul

maein bhanwara tu hai phool…., Mela

koi pyar ki dekhe jadoogari……Kohinoor

Pyar ki raha bahar ki manjil……Saaz aur Aawaz

12 AK November 22, 2016 at 10:36 am

DP Rangan,
Thanks a lot for your appreciation. And thanks for the link of Mere piya gaye Rangoon. Have been embedded.

KS Bhatiaji,
Thanks a lot for your appreciation. You have made a very sharp observation. I could make out Bachpan ke din bhula na dena very clearly.

13 Shalan Lal November 24, 2016 at 10:03 am

AK @ 3
As I did my second reading of this post and came back to your comment at number 3 I felt I should make a comment on it.

The RK songs you have mentioned are not on par of the point you have made with “Tu Mera Chand”.

The lyrics of “Awara Huon” and Mera Joota” have more humanistic meanings and they both are road songs. The recording of the Awara song has been done very cleverly mixing the studio shots and streets with humour and pathos of the hero. The other song was shot with huge amount money and was succesfully done.

While “Tu Mera Chand” was shot at the Kardar studio with very little money and Naushad though had used Suraiya in his previous films and allowed her to grow her voice did nothing in that area but used her fame and paled the audience with a cheap thing.

RK always spend hughe amount of money and huge scale of stage designs and other devices tomake the song hugely popular.

But in thesame comment number 3 your mention of the classical singers renderings I shall go along with them.

However this discussion is very interesting from the point of view of the old filmy songs as well as the art of the old filmy songs.

Shalan

14 ksbhatia November 24, 2016 at 6:33 pm

Ms.Shalan Lal ;

I agree with you . What you see in each frame of both the movies is a perfect representation of art. As you stated R K never compromised on economy of his production . The huge sets of Seth Sona Chand Dharmanand residence in Shree 420 is the testimony of the great Art Direction .
We generally talk of the four pillars of R K team…Hasrat, Shailendra, Shanker and Jaikishan but there were two more pillars who controlled the production with the real and beautiful set designing vis a vis the demand of the script or song ; and they were….Radhu Karmakar , the cinematographer and M R Acharekar , the art director . To this I will add two more ,who perfectly inhanced the art , the dress/ hair stylist and dance director . Nadira’s dance in Mud mud ke na dekh is a perfect representation of all these directors . The song, the dance,the chorus girls movements representing highway, the dresses / hair styles , the photography , B/W toning , even the extras well dressed ….representing the club culture and swaying to the beautiful song composed on two different moods ……Asha for Nadira on slow beats changing over to Manna Dey for Raj Kapoor on faster beats . We rarely come across such rich production , loaded by all art in one song or scene. In fact Awara and Shree 420 are the two great movies that speaks of an institute of Art in itself .

Here I am recalling a set from the film Barsaat . There is a scene where K N Singh is buying bangles for Nargis from a road side temporary shack / shop against her will . This scene is followed by the music on violin being played in the near by club . The scene is a representation of separation and shows the grit and determination of finding her lost love . The violin playing the famous hungarian based melody [Denube]….Chhod gaye balam.

After a gap of five or Six years , in the same setting Nargis found her love , R K in Shree 420 , pyar hua iqrar hua hai . Here one can recognise the same temporary shack representing a tea stall [ instead of bangles , in barsaat ]. Even details of streets and lamp posts are same . And what a photography !!!
The lost love of Barsaat was found in Shree 420 at the same place as represented in the movies .

One more observation….The check suit worn by Raj Kapoor in Shree 420 was again worn by him in the third part of Mera Naam Joker .

15 Shalan La November 25, 2016 at 10:54 am

KSB @ 14
I appreciate and enjoy your remarks about RK’s songs. I hope you will Specialize in presenting your way of seeing them in full details some times.

The two assistant directors Prkash Arora and Raja Navathe also are very important as RK was an actor director producer of most of the films of the RK Productions; they had to be in RK’s shoes and do exactly what RK would do.

To start a study of RK songs you have to start with the film Aag when he had full control of the production. I think from your study there will emerge that RK songs in the RK films are a school of art and some tried to imitate him but as RK’s heart and mind absent in their creation they become inferiror even SJ team was used.

I would like you to undertake this task and let us enjoy your full study. The comments @14 Stupendous and Splendid, indeed!

Shalan La

16 ksbhatia November 25, 2016 at 6:36 pm

Ms. Shalan La ;

Thanks for your encouragement and appreciations . R K is a vast subject . Writing on the subject will be a monumental task . For my age and some health problems it will be very straining . As I stated earlier each frame of R K movies is an art of its finest creation , of course with many inputs of the team associated in various other technical and art directors .

Raj kapoor gave ample opportunity to his asstt. directors in other productions and they came up well to stand by the level of expertise of R K direction . Prakash Arora did a splendid job in Boot Polish ; but experts says that some of the scenes were re shot under R K directions . What ever is the case the film was one of the best production and was praised world wise . In some international competition [ Kolva Vory ? ] Actor David and Taru dutt got the best actor and best cinematography awards .

Like wise Radhu Karmakar did a good job as full fledge director of Jis desh mein ganga behti hai . In this movie Taru Dutt was the director of photography instead of Radhu himself . Lekh Tandon , we saw him directing Professor , an F C Mehra hit production out side R K camp. The other hit movie outside R K camp was Gumnaam which was directed by Raja Nawathe [ R K’s Aah director ] . So every one who worked under R K productions did good jobs else where also .

I will continue my small observations and inputs on the theme as we proceed on . Here is a one small observation ….

The movies Awara and Shree 420 made Raj Kapoor as thespian la indian version of Charlie Chaplin . If one recall there is a scene in the movie Shree 420 , shot on location at chhowpatti , where Raj kapoor is selling the kala daant manjan [ tooth powder ] disturbing the political speech of Seth Sona Chand Dharmanand and crowd leaving Seth started buying Manjan . On query by Seth’s Asstt , Raj replied that the manjan is not the bones crushed powder but is of pure chowpaaties sand . There after crowd started beating raj .
Now this complete scene is a clear copy of one of the great comedies of Laural and Hardy ….Jitterbugs , a 1943 classic movie . Here instead of tooth powder , Hardy is selling Gas [ petrol] tablets . Watch the scene from 14.10 to 17.10 .

….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPuDbGQ9sEA&t=823s

.

17 ksbhatia November 25, 2016 at 7:05 pm

AK ji ;

The inclusion of ….saiyan se bicchhad gayi…..a duet by Sadat khan and Amirbai from Chandni Raat is a great welcome . This Naushad movie songs are less popular and so carry surprises . The quality of the song recording shows that the film was made a little earlier, say around 1945/46 , or so, and was released in 1949 for some reasons or other . Naushad’s orchestra , his using lesser instruments in prelude and interlude indicates as such of songs of 1944/45 .

Heard Sadat khan for the first time and i liked his clear voice . I am curious to hear more of his songs and musical creations .

Once again hearing this song reminds me of shades of two songs…..chandni aye banke chand [ Dulari ]….and….Aag lagi tan man mein dil ko parra thaamna [ Aan ]

18 Shalan La November 26, 2016 at 10:55 am

ksb@14
Thanks for your observation of the “Choupati Scene ” in Sri 420 film It is very correct. However RK ‘s films are not Chaplinesques or Laurel Hardy influenced. He might have chosen some ideas from both. Chaplin was very social and political conscious man. So was RK. But Laurel and Hardy were just pure fun without being social or political.

Whatever RK did was entertianing and good. The songs in his films are very special area for artists to study. Your seeing of the the RK films frame by frame is a very good idea.

If you have spare time it will be good for your oldage and other ailments to engage your mind to carry on looking at the films as you look.

I am specially intrested to see frame by frame how his song is made. However for the time being I am not watching any Hindi films because I am doing other projects which are not related to the films. Reading SoY posts is a good diversion for my tired mind. And people like you who have special gifts and at finger touch information as you mentioned in the comment 15 about the film “Chandani Raat”. I saw that film along with my brothers. The film was enhanced by the beauty of Nassim Akhtar. I like th song “Kaise Baje Dil Ka Sitar” in the voice of Samshaad and Rafi. I wish this song was chosen by AK There is a wonderful chorus song as well.

Indeed the songs that had got no publicity also need to be heard again and their beauty may be seen in our time.

Shalan La

19 AK November 26, 2016 at 12:45 pm

KS Bhatiaji,
You are adding tremendous value to the discussion which Shalan Lal has so rightly acknowledged. Not much is known about Sadat Khan. But he gave some very good music in Bhatakati Maina (1947), Behraam Daku and Arab Ka Sitara (1961). You would recall Shama gul kar ke na ja by Mubarak Begum from Arab Ka Sitara. There were also some good qawwalis and Talat Mahmood songs in these films.

RK Films directed by his assistants: I understand there were questions whether Raja Navathe and R Karmakar were really the directors of those films or these were also directed by Raj Kapoor himself, and he allowed the credit to his friends as a generous gesture.

20 ksbhatia November 26, 2016 at 4:33 pm

AK JI ;

Thanks for your appreciation . I will surly hear to Sadat Khan songs .

I totally agree to your comments about the theory of shift or generous gesture towards asstt. directors . Is it a general practice followed out side R K camp too ? At some moment of time Dilip sahib were also projected as un official director of Dil Diya Dard Liya ?

21 peddadu November 27, 2016 at 10:06 am

K.S.Bhatiaji @20,
Nav Ketan’s films were generally directed by Chetan or Vijay or Dev Anand, occasionaly by others like Guru Dutt for Baazi. Raj Khosla for Kala pani. But Hum Dono was credited to their staffer Amarjeet, though it was ghost-directed by Vijay Anand.

22 Shalan La November 27, 2016 at 1:28 pm

Comments numbers 19, 20 and 21

I think with Aah and Jis Desh Mein” RK certainly had upper hand but all RK team worked together as one. During that time RK achieved a great harmony with his team including Nargis. But the rift started after the film Jagate Raho.

With “Jis Desh Mein..” Radhu Karmakar was allowed to have many scenes directed on his own but he was asked to concentrate on the photography.

But as AK said RK has larger heart to allow all the team memebers to have a go at different areas of the film makings except Nargis seemed to be happy with the Costume Department and she developed it fully.

Raja Navathe certainly had directed the post office scen in Aah and may be the other comic scens like the confusion of the letter of love with the report of the enginnering survey as this kind of scenes were already appeared in some Marathi films.

With ref. Dilip Saab he started interfering in the direction from the film Deedar onwards. This is mentioend in the diary of Naushad called Dastan-e-Naushad.

Dev Anand had upper hand in the romantic scenes of his films. But the films that Goldie directed were far better than those of Chetan or Dev Himself did.

When the actors become very big they treat all other people as the dust on their shoes. Marlone Brando had that tendnecy and even the great directors were unwilling to work with him. So were actresses from Greata Garbo to Audrey Hepburn as if they knew what is direction.

A director is very much needed as an outsider of the scene who knows almost everything in that scene is needed.

So is the music making business. Worst example is Lata M’s songs of Saigal. She directed herself how she would do Saigal. The LP became total failure.

Shalan La

23 mumbaikar8 November 27, 2016 at 10:49 pm

AK,
Writing wrap up 4 is pleasure for you, I would like to know your definition of painstaking:)
Wonderful job.
Just like it is not possible to fool all the people all the time it is impossible to please all the people all the time but you make appreciative attempt.
My contention very much there. I think, Geeta Dutt’s presence was not as insignificant in 1949 as projected in SOY’s 1949 winners and wrap ups.
Ashokji has one Geeta Dutt Mukesh duet in his list.
I have five songs that could have been considered in the list of 55.
Hamari Manzil Kaante banegi kaliyan Geeta Rafi Batish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iJ5BSIhWCg
Karwat Ooo badal ghir aaye Geeta Asha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIdz0PRDOZo
Kamal Kahne ko hai tayyar magar kaise kahen hum Geeta Surendra
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBKSYXuUKXs
Dil ki basti Oh pardesiya oh rasiya Geeta Zohra bai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEr7Rjf24v4
Naach Kyoon karta maan jawani ka Geeta Lata Rafi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4x8j1-qHqMg

24 AK November 28, 2016 at 12:11 am

Mumbaikar8,
I guess you have expressed your appreciation for my effort even if it was flawed :). Thanks a lot for this.

I don’t think I have used the word ‘painstaking’, have I? Therefore, I am passing up your question for the time being.

Geeta Dutt had a significant presence in numbers. How many of them can be termed memorable in the face of my list is a matter of opinion.

25 ksbhatia November 28, 2016 at 9:33 am

Ms. Mumbaikar 8;

Some time a good singer or a good song gets a pass and is gone unnoticed even with the good support system in place . Geeta dutt song …..Tu mera chand mein teri chandni ….though very much in the movie , went unnoticed on account of its better version already there .

Tu mera chand……Shyaam , Geeta dutt….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C05k714hsFQ

I am not aware wheather the 78 r.p.m vinyle record was made or not.

26 Shalan La November 28, 2016 at 11:17 am

ksbhatia @25

You are wonderful. I did not know the song exhisted. But seeing it I am very much ipressed by the way director had put it in.

I agree with your view that Suraiya version got more publicity as it was on the record. We had all the records except this version.

However I do not see how AK could include it in his list. But as an oddity now it could be included for both as Geeta Roy sang for Naushaad. I wonder if she was given more songs by Naushad.

I feel that the song in Geetaas voice is not much special or musically sweeter than that of Suraiya.
I am still surprised by this song as it is in the geeta’s voice.

Shalan La

27 mumbaikar8 November 28, 2016 at 1:31 pm

AK,
Your list your opinion matters:)

Ksbhatiaji,
Good addition and well said” Some time a good singer or a good song gets a pass and is gone unnoticed” but with a good support, I think, it is less likely.
Geeta , I think, did not have much support, other than her vibrant personality, in fact she was supportive to many strugglers like O P Nayyar, Guru Dutt and to some extent Rafi, I believe, it was she who got Rafi along with OP to Guru Dutt’s camp and then Pyaasa created history.

28 KB November 28, 2016 at 2:21 pm

It is very often seen that although movies have flopped the songs have become hits and are remembered for a long time and a good number of them are even heard today although the films are simply untraceable . This is especially true in the case of compositions of OP as also some other composers such as Chitragupta and N Dutta and also of several less heard and recognised music directors. OP and others have done a marvelous job to be remembered even now.

29 ksbhatia November 28, 2016 at 6:43 pm

KB @ 28 ;

I entirely agree with you .It will be a good idea if we all come up with……. good songs of unnoticed or untraceable movies ……in a post or at Open House of SoY.

N Dutta gave a large varient of songs from…..lal lal gaal [ complete western ] , mein tum se poochh tee hun [ romantic], , kaase kahun man ki baat [classical] ….to …aurat ne janam diya mardoan ko [ a soul touching sad song of its kind ] . Like Chitragupt he also seems to be reserved or a shy person , always remained in the background , but musically he was among the the likes of Khayyam , Madan Mohan , Jaidev etc .

In comparison, Chitragupt had uniform flow of songs in many social and semi mythlogical movies apart from some fantasy ones . Thus catering for all class of masses and as such never disappointed them. His style was easily recognisable by its typical tabla and dholak beats , pausing in between the antras .

30 ksbhatia November 28, 2016 at 7:09 pm

Ms. Mumbaikar 8 , #27 ;

Guru Dutt had a great subjective vision as well as musical bent of mind . For crime thriller cum romantic movies he chose O P N . For classic / serious/romantic he chose S D B . Both MDs never disappointed the audience and producer as well. In all the movies Lata, Asha , Geeta and Shamshad were the real pearls of the necklace .

I have a feeling that SDB should have continued in the Sahib Biwi aur Ghulam as well …..taking off from where he left with…..aaj sanam mohe…..a masterpiece and a rare combination of many art forms in a single song . Geeta Dutt starting and ending the song with superb redention . Simply great!

31 ksbhatia November 28, 2016 at 7:33 pm

Ms.Shalan Lal @ 26 ;

Yes , the song ….tu mera chand….by Geeta Dutt must have stirred or shaken some of the readers as this was a rare case of Geeta , Naushad combination . It is as rare as Lata singing a cabaret number…..tum ko agar maine pyar kiya….. for Naushad in My Friend .

The Suraiya , Shyaam duet is very well sung , being a happy romantic song their voices reciprocated very well . I have a feeling that the other duet ……Zalim zamana mujh ko…., which is a sad one , is a little better…. for the reason that both the singer used higher scales and lived to their capacity of their range . Any way Ak has included this song in his exhaustive listing and I am happy of his listing . Here again…..to each his own……formula applies.

Zalim zamana mujhko…..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq7mRl95uno

32 shyam chirravoori November 29, 2016 at 4:08 am

Please correct the words धड़कती and पनी in सीने में आग धड़कती है आंखों से पनी बहता है

33 AK November 29, 2016 at 8:53 am

Shyam Chirraoori,
Thanks a lot. पनी since corrected, but what is the error in धड़्कती?

34 Shalan La November 29, 2016 at 11:39 am

AK @ 33

Perhaps the reader Mr Shirravoori meant the word “bhadakati” you have used in the beginning of your song number one.
“Seene mein aag bhadakati hai…Ae ishq humein barbaad na kar” by Rafi and Suraiya from Naach, lyrics Sarshr Sailani, music Husnlal-Bhagatram

About the word ” पनी” your correction is correct as the song needs extra “Aa” sound.

But too often in the many dialects of the Hindi/Urdu often a “Maatraa” is shortened to make the language soft.

The words ” bhadakati” & “धड़्कती” could be confusing. But technically when the word Aag” is used the word “bhadakati” should be followed. But then the words “सीने में” have been used and then the beating of the heart “धड़कती” is suitable.
I would prefer the the word “bhadakati” as it has a larger heat that has been tormenting the hero if the song is re-written.

But then in the song “धड़्कती” has been used.
“सीने में आग धड़कती है आंखों से पानी बहता है
कुछ ऐसी चोट लगी दिल पर दिल रो रो के ये कहता है

What is done in the past we can correct unless in our own way we can say Bhadakati instead of “धड़्कती”

Shalan La

35 Shalan La November 29, 2016 at 12:05 pm

Mubaikar 8 @ 27

Geeta Roy had unique voice which was both lucid and musical and versatile. She could sing a cabaret song and a classical song and romantic song and devotional song. Many musical directors have used that wonderfully. Many of her songs are forever memorable for the heart cutting and heart touching. It was a very sad thing that her private life with Guru Dutt was poignantly depressing and also the rise of Asha Bhosley brought her good career to the vanishing point.

In my childhood I had often seen her at the “Durga Pooja ceremony in Bombay’s Shivaji Park. She was sweet and enjoyed the attention paid toher by the worshippers and in return she snag many devotional songs to delight them.

We had a set of records of the songs of thefilm “Har Har Mahdev 1950” This film gave Geeta Roy huge push. Her voice and the songs were very popular at the time.

I hope this will cheer you up.

Shalan Lal

36 mumbaikar8 November 29, 2016 at 1:23 pm

Ksbhtiaji@30
I too feel that Guru Dutt should have continued with SDB.
For me each song of Pyaasa is a masterpiece so is the two great of Kagaz ke phool. I read somewhere that SDB did not want Guru Dutt to make sort of autobiographical movie and had some prophetic feeling that the movie would be a disaster for his life.
After that sadly SDB did not work him and Guru Dutt did not officially direct any movie.

37 mumbaikar8 November 29, 2016 at 1:36 pm

Shalan Lal, @35
Thanks for cheer up.
I am not a very enthusiast admirer of celebrities, particularly film personality.
Though I have some emotional bonding for two filmy personalities Rafi and Sadhana, for others it is because I like to speak my mind.
I would like to add pathos to Geeta’s versatility.
Can you imagine a lively seventeen year old singing Mera sundar sapna beet gaya
Lata, as we all know, is the best female singer but the one song that I think Geeta would have done better is Badle badle mere Sarkar nazar aate hai from Chaudivin ka chand. I believe by that time Geeta had stopped singing for Waheeda.
Shalan Lal @34
I think in the song it is Bhadakti and not dhadakti, and as you said it should be Bhadakti because the adjective is for aag and not seene ki dhakan

38 ksbhatia November 29, 2016 at 6:05 pm

AK ji;

Some of the songs which are still knocking the doors, as they have missed their inclusion in the long listing, are….

1. Tadpa ke ab…..Rafi , Lata…..Namoona…..CR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCYrWKCWX1A

2. O pardesi musafir…..Suraiya , Lata….Balam….HB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bOi-5_kERU

3.Mere aangan mein chandni….Raj kumari, Lata…Usha Haran…S.Devi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh6DDTy0uO0

4.Apni nazar se door woh…Rafi, Lata…Bazaar….Shyam Sunder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HkAOLe9L9g

5. Dil do naino mein kho…..Mukesh ,Surinder Kaur…Sunehre Din…Gyan Dutt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuBN1e6LYzc

The song at no: 1 is my childhood radio days fav. There is one more song similar to this song which I am struggling to recall ; will post when traced.

39 shyam chirravoori November 30, 2016 at 1:54 am

AK,
Thanks for the correction.
I think it is “Seene mein aag bhadakati hai”
You may listen to the song. I copied the above from your note only.

Shyam

40 Shalan La November 30, 2016 at 10:11 am

Mumbaikar 8 @ 37

Your comment and suggestion “…… I think Geeta would have done better is Badle badle mere Sarkar nazar aate hai” from Chaudivin ka chand.” is very interesting. But that would have too close for Guru’s comfort.” Guru was far too sentimental and not much professional. If there would have been Raj K in his place he would have exploited it. Yes indeed Geeta would have done far better than Lata and the incident would have gone down in the history as a landmark because of the triangle and the subtle meaning in the song.

However Guru’s sister once came to London to exhibit her paintings and talked about the famous Triangle. She mentioned that Guru had no such relation with Vahida as now we know is a legend.

Filmy world creates more myths than the ancient civilizations have ever done.

Shalan La

41 Shalan La November 30, 2016 at 10:25 am

AK, Mumbaikar 8 and Shyam Chirravoori

With reference to the song in thefilm Naach 1949 following is the lyric that would settle the dispute:
सु : सीने में आग भड़कती है आँखों से पानी बहता है
कुछ ऐसी चोट लगी दिल पर दिल रो-रो कर ये कहता है

ऐ इश्क़ हमें बरबाद न कर -४

दिल तोड़ के मन का मीत गया
हम हार गये ग़म जीत गया
ख़ुशियों का ज़माना बीत गया
ख़ुशियों का ज़माना याद न कर

र : ऐ इश्क़ हमें बरबाद न कर -२

क्यूँ रोते हैं दो दीवाने
बेदर्द ज़माना क्या जाने
बेदर्द ज़माने से ऐ दिल
उम्मीद न रख फ़रियाद न कर

सु : ऐ इश्क़ हमें बरबाद न कर -२

पहले तो क़फ़स में क़ैद किया
सैय्याद ने फिर ये हुक़्म दिया
होंठों को सी अश्क़ों को पी
आँसू न बहा फ़रियाद न कर

सु : ऐ इश्क़ हमें बरबाद न कर -४

Shalan Lal

42 AK November 30, 2016 at 2:00 pm

Shalan Lal, Mumbaikar8, Shyam Chirravoori

Shalan, thanks a lot for giving the full lyrics. That settles the matter as far as the word that was intended in the lyrics is concerned. But Mumbaikar8 made an interesting point which takes me to what ought to be the right word. Am I right in suggesting that धधकती or दहकती would have been more appropriate?

43 KB November 30, 2016 at 3:05 pm

Good point brought up in #30 by Shri KS Bhatia regarding Guru dutt ‘s selection of composers. In fact I feel that OP served him better than others and he should have been continued by Guru Dutt. Similarly, Dev Anand also had his choices apart fro SD but for his non Navketan films some composers like Salil Choudhary did an excellent job (MAYA).Even the contributions of SJ in his films (Non Navketan ) like Love Marriage,Patita ,JPKHH , Asli Naqli and Roop ki rani … was outstanding and less recognised.

44 mumbaikar8 November 30, 2016 at 4:39 pm

Shalan Lal,
You are on the dot about the difference between the personalities of Guru Dutt and Raj Kapoor.

I do not take their relationship as myth.
One cannot expect a sister to talk about the relationship of her brother to every one she meets.
Waheeda has never denied, though she does not talk about it.
She has gracefully opted out saying she would not discuss her personal life in public.

AK,
First let me acknowledge the mix up I did between adjective and verb discussing the grammar of Hindi in English.
I agree with धधकती or दहकती

45 Shalan Lal December 1, 2016 at 10:21 am

AK@ 42

As a person who did Pandit exam of the University of Benaras I would say your understanding is very correct in the question you have asked “Am I right in suggesting that धधकती or दहकती would have been more appropriate?” But both the words in the song may not fit as the first word “धधकती” is soft and the second word “दहकती” is not that strong as “भड़कती” which has power and one can see the “Flames ” of the fire in it. The lyricist is master of using the words. The word दहकती” can be translated in English as “smoldering”. Now you see how it is different than the word “भड़कती” whish can be a synonym to “धधकती” but has lesser strength and internal burning and not visual.

Shalan Lal

46 Shalan Lal December 1, 2016 at 10:27 am

Mumbaikar 8 43

Your statment “I do not take their relationship as myth.
One cannot expect a sister to talk about the relationship of her brother to every one she meets.” has assumed that the Sister of Guru Dutt made her remark wantonly or not. It was a public lecture of her at the Nehru Centre, London in which she insisted that there was nothing between them.

Shalan Lal

47 AK December 1, 2016 at 11:18 am

Shalan Lal,
I doubt if it can be settled finally. The choice between the three words is very difficult, and I find Mumbaikar8 too has agreed with me.

48 mumbaikar8 December 1, 2016 at 2:25 pm

Shalan Lal,
Irrespective of whether she made this statement publicly or privately, I would be skeptical about it.

49 Shalan Lal December 2, 2016 at 4:11 pm

AK @ 47

Now it is my turn to use your pet phrase,”suum cuique pulchrum est ‎(“to each his own is beautiful”).

Q.E.D.

Shalan La

50 AK December 2, 2016 at 4:31 pm

Shalan Lal,
This is not French!

51 SSW December 2, 2016 at 5:08 pm

No matter AK it is a Romance language after all, the original one in fact. 🙂

52 ksbhatia December 2, 2016 at 6:55 pm

AK, SSW ;
….To each his own….
All of us have quoted this line as a diffuser to the controversy or difference of opinion cropped up while discussions on various posts from time to time . As this line and the song has been fav. I was looking for some opportunity to load this 1946 song by Eddy Howard . Since the subject has cropped up now again , here is that song which was used as background song sung by Al Martino in Godfather [ part 3 ] movie made in 1990 .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCW0tjlPgMU

53 Shalan La December 6, 2016 at 10:22 am

AK, SSW AND KSBHATIA @ 50,51 and 52

The phrase I used is Latin. It has been used manytimes whenver an impass “i.e. a situation in which progress is impossible, especially because the people involved cannot agree” occurs in debate or discussion. ksbhatia has given good analysis.

Shalan La

54 SSW December 6, 2016 at 11:22 am

Ms. Lal , I know it is Latin . If you check my mail, I said ” No matter AK it is a Romance language after all, the original one in fact. “. All Romance languages are derived from Latin to an extent as French is. I was referring to AK’s statement.

55 Shalan Lal December 9, 2016 at 10:37 am

SSW @ 54

Yes you are right. The comment 53 included you for your interest in the interest in the idium “,”suum cuique pulchrum est ‎(“to each his own is beautiful”).” the Explanation was for AK in particular. SSW and ksbhatia were for polite manners and not to point you both for clarification.

Thanks again for your good comment @51.

Shalan Lal

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